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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6518019" data-attributes="member: 6787650">I hope this post wasn't addressed to me because I don't know what it means. You seem to be saying that fighting 5 trolls at 7th level in 5E is somehow equivalent to an &quot;all-minion&quot; encounter in 4E, and then something about how that makes the &quot;roles not emerge.&quot; My sense is that the word &quot;minion&quot; is basically synonymous with &quot;mook&quot; and implies &quot;weak compared to the party&quot;, so if I'm understanding you correctly, the analogy seems off on that score (trolls are quite strong, two of them is officially a &quot;Hard&quot; fight--they're not mooks).Just as FYI, anytime people start talking about 4E, I generally skip over it. This thread isn't about 4E in the first place, it's &quot;what are the roles in 5E&quot;, and right now we're on a completely different sub-tangent anyway about the duration of 5E combats.Important mechanical features of 5E combat that can affect combat length include the Dodge maneuver, the ability to move and fire/cast spells in the same turn, bounded accuracy, attacks of opportunity/monster sizes (interacts with Dodge), various damage-increasing feats like Sharpshooter, unlimited cantrips, spell ranges, and disabling spells, among others. Relative to AD&amp;D, 5E encourages kiting and discourages smiting--at least against large groups. (AD&amp;D's Parry mechanic from CFH encouraged one-on-one duels which could be very long, in order to kill the enemy without suffering any hit point ablation. In this corner case, 5E combats will actually be much shorter than AD&amp;D combats.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6518019, member: 6787650"] I hope this post wasn't addressed to me because I don't know what it means. You seem to be saying that fighting 5 trolls at 7th level in 5E is somehow equivalent to an "all-minion" encounter in 4E, and then something about how that makes the "roles not emerge." My sense is that the word "minion" is basically synonymous with "mook" and implies "weak compared to the party", so if I'm understanding you correctly, the analogy seems off on that score (trolls are quite strong, two of them is officially a "Hard" fight--they're not mooks). Just as FYI, anytime people start talking about 4E, I generally skip over it. This thread isn't about 4E in the first place, it's "what are the roles in 5E", and right now we're on a completely different sub-tangent anyway about the duration of 5E combats. Important mechanical features of 5E combat that can affect combat length include the Dodge maneuver, the ability to move and fire/cast spells in the same turn, bounded accuracy, attacks of opportunity/monster sizes (interacts with Dodge), various damage-increasing feats like Sharpshooter, unlimited cantrips, spell ranges, and disabling spells, among others. Relative to AD&D, 5E encourages kiting and discourages smiting--at least against large groups. (AD&D's Parry mechanic from CFH encouraged one-on-one duels which could be very long, in order to kill the enemy without suffering any hit point ablation. In this corner case, 5E combats will actually be much shorter than AD&D combats.) [/QUOTE]

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