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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6518838" data-attributes="member: 87792">And this is a big problem with a lot of worldbuilding. That it's far far too coherent. Look at the real world. and how it is chaotic. A coherent world is a bad thing.And this is where RPGs are weird. Especially more democratic ones that share the authority as much as possible. If I'm playing a top-down classic D&D game, my goal is to win. And random deaths are ... annoying. But some of my best experiences have come from deaths - although very seldom in D&D.First, the stakes are higher in combat as war as a boardgame, so the desire for advocacy To Win is stronger. Second where your headspace is is different.Right now I feel this is pure projection by someone who has only tried a tiny range of things and believes them to be the be all and end all and is utterly unable to grasp the idea that it is a focussed tool for a focussed job.I am currently both running D&D (4e) and playing D&D (Pathfinder). I do not know of a single better challenge focussed RPG than D&D (there are some who would claim Luke Crane's Torchbearer). Part of the way it does this is through arbitrary rules and gamist systems like hit points that undermine immersion but provide information for the challenge while not providing negative feedback loops like hit point death spirals that make things unfun. (As you take damage you take penalties to act. Nasty negative feedback loop in a lot of RPGs).That I respect D&D for what it does rather than arbitrarily declaring it an all singing all dancing superlative that makes the tea and cures cancer doesn't mean I dislike it. It means that I understand what the design intent was.And once more this is just a single function of the rules. Rules that provide limits are superb for challenge centred play. Arbitrary rules that provide limits that do not fit with character concepts are awful for immersion - every time you run into one it breaks immersion. Rules also have other purposes including to communicate and get on the same page, to guide towards and reinforce the character's personality (something D&D alignments are terrible at, as is the WoD Humanity system), and to evoke themes and worldbuilding (something D&D often does).And again this is pure projection by someone who appears to not understand the design of RPGs - or even why D&D is an amazing game at what it does.</blockquote>

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