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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 6519044" data-attributes="member: 957">But, to me, and I've had many conversations about good game with my group, it is a fine line with HUGE implications.I am claiming it is impossible to be immersed in something you are not doing.As I said to you, I make no dispute in your sense of immersion in the game and narrative.  I can become completely immersed in a novel.  And clearly I'm not sensing the same feeling as the idea of being in character and dealing with situations using only the abilities and resources of that character.  And neither is the same as playing a character but having abilities to change how a situation is resolved that their character does not have.  And as I said to P, if you don't like to word "immersion" pick something else.  To me it is the correct word.It is untrue and ridiculous to claim you can be immersed in something that you are actively rejecting doing.Eh, I'm not buying the "exploiting" myself.  But, trying to look at it from your point of view, that may be exactly the right word to communicate the point.  The thrill of success comes from knowing this character achieved this in a way that I can vicariously say *I* achieved it as-if in his shoes.  (This is not remotely the only thrill of TTRPGs, for the record  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  )  So if you do something that you couldn't do in that guy's shoes then you have "cheated".  Again, that tone doesn;t describe how I feel it, but it kinda works.  The obnly thing you ahve really cheated is yourself out of the opportunity to achieve "as that guy". Interesting point.  But I don't agree that this steals from the ability to solve problems "as that guy".  I had not thought about it, but we did have a PC become blind for quite a few sessions several years back.  I do recall a notable amount of side conversation dedicated to capturing that feel.  I'd point out first that the PLAYER drove this restriction far more than I did and second that this level of micromanaging a situation was very much an outlier. I'm fairly sure this is now already covered.  You are certainly immersed.  But you are not immersed in anything you reject doing.  Please suggest another word that adequately captures the point.Strongly agree.But then again, I know that my players seek out this style.  So I'm playing with the grain of my group.  (I do tend to think that over the years my DM style has reinforced that, so maybe there is a circle here to some extent)But this issue rarely raises it head for a moment at the table.  But at the same time, the mutual understanding of it is everpresent.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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