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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6521232" data-attributes="member: 42582">Who has said that? I haven't. [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION] hasn't. Can you quote a post you have in mind? I don't know what you think the reference of &quot;THAT THING&quot; is.Upthread you described it as &quot;immersion in character&quot;. I don't know many RPGers who reject that. Most of the players in my 4e game - probably all of them, but for some it is more obvious - enjoy immersion in character. My claim is that the presence of player authorship mechanics or practices in a game does not preclude immersion in character.If by &quot;immersion in character&quot; you mean &quot;playing without player authorship&quot; then it is tautologically true that player authorship precludes immersion in character. But there is no reason to think that &quot;immersion in character&quot;, so defined, is any sort of distinct psychological experience. If you define &quot;immersed in the romantic harmonies&quot; as meaning &quot;listening to Beethoven&quot; then, by definition, I can't be immersed in the romantic harmonies while listening to Wagner. But that doesn't given any reason to suppose that the emotional and aesthetic character of my experience, when listening to Wagner, is not the same as your when listening to Beethoven.(Whereas we might both agree that the pleasure from listening to the Sex Pistols is quite different.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6521232, member: 42582"] Who has said that? I haven't. [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION] hasn't. Can you quote a post you have in mind? I don't know what you think the reference of "THAT THING" is. Upthread you described it as "immersion in character". I don't know many RPGers who reject that. Most of the players in my 4e game - probably all of them, but for some it is more obvious - enjoy immersion in character. My claim is that the presence of player authorship mechanics or practices in a game does not preclude immersion in character. If by "immersion in character" you mean "playing without player authorship" then it is tautologically true that player authorship precludes immersion in character. But there is no reason to think that "immersion in character", so defined, is any sort of distinct psychological experience. If you define "immersed in the romantic harmonies" as meaning "listening to Beethoven" then, by definition, I can't be immersed in the romantic harmonies while listening to Wagner. But that doesn't given any reason to suppose that the emotional and aesthetic character of my experience, when listening to Wagner, is not the same as your when listening to Beethoven. (Whereas we might both agree that the pleasure from listening to the Sex Pistols is quite different.) [/QUOTE]

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