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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 6529642" data-attributes="member: 957">Where did I claim that these particular notes demonstrated that 4E was move heavy handed?&nbsp; I've seen you involved in uncountable threads with many different people explaining to you the reasons 4E has issues with appeal to large portions of the market.&nbsp; And you didn't get the point then, so I don't see any reason to try to make that case yet again here.&nbsp; It is simply stated as a point of fact that a lot of people do perceive it as such.But in this post you also went back to the well of cherry-picking Gygax quotes.&nbsp; And you then state &quot; The game has been giving generic English words the job of serving as technical labels since day 1.&quot;.&nbsp; I was responding to that.&nbsp; And I completely agree with it as a general point.&nbsp; But I also claim that in this conversation about &quot;roles&quot; and how that term may be different in 4E than in the common parlance of the D&amp;D community across all editions requires looking at the complete modern context.&nbsp; You are able to shine a *relatively* decent light on 4E if you focus on AD&amp;D exclusively (at least for this &quot;roles&quot; topic).&nbsp; But I'm showing that putting it is true historic context, including other more recent games puts a significantly different light on the overall community perception.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 6529642, member: 957"] Where did I claim that these particular notes demonstrated that 4E was move heavy handed? I've seen you involved in uncountable threads with many different people explaining to you the reasons 4E has issues with appeal to large portions of the market. And you didn't get the point then, so I don't see any reason to try to make that case yet again here. It is simply stated as a point of fact that a lot of people do perceive it as such. But in this post you also went back to the well of cherry-picking Gygax quotes. And you then state " The game has been giving generic English words the job of serving as technical labels since day 1.". I was responding to that. And I completely agree with it as a general point. But I also claim that in this conversation about "roles" and how that term may be different in 4E than in the common parlance of the D&D community across all editions requires looking at the complete modern context. You are able to shine a *relatively* decent light on 4E if you focus on AD&D exclusively (at least for this "roles" topic). But I'm showing that putting it is true historic context, including other more recent games puts a significantly different light on the overall community perception. [/QUOTE]

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