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What are the Roles now?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6530123" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I agree entirely with [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]'s post 1029 upthread.</p><p></p><p> [MENTION=957]BryonD[/MENTION], I have never used the term "h4ter" in this thread, nor - to the best of my recollection - in any thread ever.</p><p></p><p>This is not in dispute.</p><p></p><p>But it is not relevant to the question of whether or not other editions had roles.</p><p></p><p>Manifestly, no fighter in AD&D could be a healer or a buffer on a par with a cleric. (And this is one respect in which AD&D and 4e resemble one another pretty closely.) That is the sort of distinction in areas of competence that roles are made of.</p><p></p><p>Fighters in AD&D and in 4e are both very sticky. But the mechanical devices whereby these are achieved are very different - I've outlined them earlier upthread, and again just above. I've got not doubt that some people don't care about generically sticky melee but dislike stickiness achieved by deploying a class ability (imposing the marked condition, or forced movement, or the slowed condition, etc). But that doesn't tell us anything about whether or not their are roles - fighters in both AD&D and 4e stand out as the characters best able to stand in the middle of a sea of enemies who can't easily retreat. (Which is not to say that both are "defenders" because, for reasons I have also explained upthread, in AD&D there is no very interesting distinction between "defender" and "melee striker".)</p><p></p><p>A lot of those who don't like 4e don't like the feel of warlord healing. But that does not have any bearing on whether or not the warlord has functionality similar to that of a cleric: of course s/he does. It's precisely because of that overlapping functionality (ie both fulfil the healer or "leader" role) that people object!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6530123, member: 42582"] I agree entirely with [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]'s post 1029 upthread. [MENTION=957]BryonD[/MENTION], I have never used the term "h4ter" in this thread, nor - to the best of my recollection - in any thread ever. This is not in dispute. But it is not relevant to the question of whether or not other editions had roles. Manifestly, no fighter in AD&D could be a healer or a buffer on a par with a cleric. (And this is one respect in which AD&D and 4e resemble one another pretty closely.) That is the sort of distinction in areas of competence that roles are made of. Fighters in AD&D and in 4e are both very sticky. But the mechanical devices whereby these are achieved are very different - I've outlined them earlier upthread, and again just above. I've got not doubt that some people don't care about generically sticky melee but dislike stickiness achieved by deploying a class ability (imposing the marked condition, or forced movement, or the slowed condition, etc). But that doesn't tell us anything about whether or not their are roles - fighters in both AD&D and 4e stand out as the characters best able to stand in the middle of a sea of enemies who can't easily retreat. (Which is not to say that both are "defenders" because, for reasons I have also explained upthread, in AD&D there is no very interesting distinction between "defender" and "melee striker".) A lot of those who don't like 4e don't like the feel of warlord healing. But that does not have any bearing on whether or not the warlord has functionality similar to that of a cleric: of course s/he does. It's precisely because of that overlapping functionality (ie both fulfil the healer or "leader" role) that people object! [/QUOTE]
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