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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aenghus" data-source="post: 6533105" data-attributes="member: 2656">I generally agree with pemerton's comments on the 4e fighter as it evolved. It was viable but not as strong straight out of the first 4e PHB, but became a lot stronger with subsequent material - Fighters and wizards are both contenders for the 4e classes with the most available options, and more material equates to more options for optimisation. There are a bunch of 4e fighter subclasses.Some of the enthusiasm from 4e fighter players comes from the marking mechanics. It meant that at long last the fighter had mechanics that helped them lock down enemies and defend other PCs. This meant 4e fights could take place in the open without it being suicidal for the PCs, as opposed to being stuck in bottlenecks (which previously was the main way to protect squishies).Obviously, a proportion of fighter players in previous editions were focusing on damage dealing, not protection. The damage dealing role in 4e was primarily shifted to the striker classes which potentially meant the 4e fighter didn't work as they expect. The 4e essentials slayer fighter subclass was for those players, though it's a lower damage striker that doesn't scale well at higher level.Though as it happens, the AEDU 4e fighter is a fairly high damage class, more so if the subsequent material is utilised. Some of the damage output is dependent on how the DM runs monsters though, the damage is higher if monsters sometimes trigger combat challenge.As it happens the  4e group I DM for contains both a sword and board fighter and a shielding swordmage. Both are considered effective in their own ways. The fighter, though a defensive build, deals out a lot more damage than the swordmage, who is in effect a secondary controller, though a lot less than the strikers in the party (melee ranger, essentials thief). My early 4e games demonstrated what happened to strikers without defender support. The party rogue won initiative and dashed forward to attack the enemy, then was immediately surrounded and knocked out by the monsters. Eventually the player of the rogue learned to hang back the first round and throw a dagger, only flanking once the defenders had locked down the enemy.So the striker players learned to be grateful to the defender players for their role in enabling their fun.I use all the relevant errata, and the player of the fighter enjoys using the vs Will version of Come and Get It. It''s the sort of thing you see in the over the top action movies that were partially an inspiration for 4e.Without knowing the details of your DM's house rules I can't say how it affected your experience of the 4e fighter. Messing up the adjudication of marks is one possibility.</blockquote>

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