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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6541616" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I'm trying to have a polite conversation, not get a lecture about how I've not been paying enough attention. If you want to share, share. If you want to repeat how terrible 4e is, I'm not particularly interested. Particularly when you overtly state &quot;4e is a bad game.&quot;I don't know. What motivates you to say 4e is a low-quality game? That's pretty damn pejorative.I hardly think tangentially referring to a once-common, and still-incorrect, statement about 4e is the same as saying most people who like 4e have insulted you as a person. One is using the personal attacks of people outside the thread as a way to dismiss conversation, the other is (briefly) mentioning a complaint, and saying that a different complaint is very similar.So it's only &quot;control&quot; if you &quot;control&quot; multiple things. Having a puppet who can do your bidding all day long, potentially for the rest of your life (or theirs, I suppose) isn't good enough.&nbsp; You keep stridently calling it &quot;mental gymnastics,&quot; but it's really not. If you are controlling the mind of at least one enemy unit, you're being a controller--it's right there in the term &quot;mind control.&quot; Especially if you can make them fight, and get a whole extra person's participation in combat. That's not a &quot;one-use, never again&quot; thing--that's a gift that keeps on giving, all day. To say nothing of the &quot;you can charm more than once a day&quot; response Hussar gave.&quot;Get over it&quot;? No. I'm not going to &quot;get over it&quot; any more than OSR gamers will (or even should) &quot;get over&quot; being told that the only reason they like their games is nostalgia. (Just to be clear: I do NOT believe that nostalgia is the only reason to play older editions, or games which hearken to them and their style. I am saying that &quot;new-school&quot; sneering at older-style play is something fans of that style justifiably dislike, and that &quot;oh, it's a boardgame&quot; sneering at 4e is no different.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6541616, member: 6790260"] I'm trying to have a polite conversation, not get a lecture about how I've not been paying enough attention. If you want to share, share. If you want to repeat how terrible 4e is, I'm not particularly interested. Particularly when you overtly state "4e is a bad game." I don't know. What motivates you to say 4e is a low-quality game? That's pretty damn pejorative. I hardly think tangentially referring to a once-common, and still-incorrect, statement about 4e is the same as saying most people who like 4e have insulted you as a person. One is using the personal attacks of people outside the thread as a way to dismiss conversation, the other is (briefly) mentioning a complaint, and saying that a different complaint is very similar. So it's only "control" if you "control" multiple things. Having a puppet who can do your bidding all day long, potentially for the rest of your life (or theirs, I suppose) isn't good enough. You keep stridently calling it "mental gymnastics," but it's really not. If you are controlling the mind of at least one enemy unit, you're being a controller--it's right there in the term "mind control." Especially if you can make them fight, and get a whole extra person's participation in combat. That's not a "one-use, never again" thing--that's a gift that keeps on giving, all day. To say nothing of the "you can charm more than once a day" response Hussar gave. "Get over it"? No. I'm not going to "get over it" any more than OSR gamers will (or even should) "get over" being told that the only reason they like their games is nostalgia. (Just to be clear: I do NOT believe that nostalgia is the only reason to play older editions, or games which hearken to them and their style. I am saying that "new-school" sneering at older-style play is something fans of that style justifiably dislike, and that "oh, it's a [I]board[/I]game" sneering at 4e is no different.) [/QUOTE]

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