Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9269794" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Because it isn't a puzzle if there's only three ways to do a particular thing and that thing comes up every other session. It becomes &quot;oh, another 'block the hole' scene. Look at how much fun we're having.&quot; Hence why I referenced a lack of creativity. Problem-solving is only interesting when the problem is in fact solvable, and the problem is distinct enough to require thought.All the &quot;Hard Fun&quot; &quot;Nightmare Fuel&quot; traps I've ever seen could be summarized on a 3x5 note card and thus obviate any actual thinking. Do the SOP for whatever standard dungeon trap it is and move on. Or--in a bitter irony, given how such DMs are so prone to fling accusations of this at other games--&quot;think with your character sheet,&quot; just the equipment/inventory section rather than the actions/skills section.Except that it's always the DMs who bill themselves as offering a &quot;challenging&quot; game that do this, IME. Because, apparently, &quot;there's no way to win&quot; is &quot;challenging,&quot; as opposed to simply being unwinnable.Casual DMs aren't interested in making unwinnable stuff, because they just want to have a good time and hang out. And then, of course, there are all the other kinds of DMs (that is, ones that aren't like your inexplicable &quot;Hard Fun&quot; &quot;Nightmare Fuel&quot; and aren't &quot;Bad Casual&quot;), that generally also don't want unwinnable stuff.&nbsp; (Of course, there will be a few who are forcing a railroad or whatever, where failure is the only option because they need the players to walk through the <s>plot of the novel they're writing</s> do the obviously correct thing in order to move on.) E.g. I would consider myself a &quot;Serious Roleplay&quot; DM, if I had to use terminology like yours (given, again, I don't actually know what &quot;Hard Fun&quot; and &quot;Nightmare Fuel&quot; mean, despite having asked)--I take worldbuilding and character arcs very seriously, I want to see a character grow and change and respond to dilemmas, and I want players who care about what happens to their characters, their NPC allies, and the world the characters inhabit. And when I'm a player, I want to experience that myself--I want to care about my character and his (usually his) story, and the story of the world, and the things they do.That's actually a big part of why I find pure-attrition traps (and most other pure-attrition &quot;challenges&quot;) so boring.Okay. What, exactly, makes a trap interesting? You're quite confident you are not such a DM. What do you do? Walk me through the process of designing and using a trap. If it actually is as valuable as you say, then adding it to my own game will be of benefit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9269794, member: 6790260"] Because it isn't a puzzle if there's only three ways to do a particular thing and that thing comes up every other session. It becomes "oh, another 'block the hole' scene. Look at how much fun we're having." Hence why I referenced a lack of creativity. Problem-solving is only interesting when the problem is in fact solvable, [I]and[/I] the problem is distinct enough to require thought. All the "Hard Fun" "Nightmare Fuel" traps I've ever seen could be summarized on a 3x5 note card and thus obviate any actual thinking. Do the SOP for whatever standard dungeon trap it is and move on. Or--in a bitter irony, given how such DMs are so prone to fling accusations of this at other games--"think with your character sheet," just the equipment/inventory section rather than the actions/skills section. Except that it's always the DMs who bill themselves as offering a "challenging" game that do this, IME. Because, apparently, "there's no way to win" is "challenging," as opposed to simply being unwinnable. Casual DMs aren't interested in making unwinnable stuff, because they just want to have a good time and hang out. And then, of course, there are all the other kinds of DMs (that is, ones that aren't like your inexplicable "Hard Fun" "Nightmare Fuel" [I]and[/I] aren't "Bad Casual"), that generally also don't want unwinnable stuff. (Of course, there will be a few who are forcing a railroad or whatever, where failure is the only option because they need the players to walk through the [S]plot of the novel they're writing[/S] [I]do the obviously correct thing[/I] in order to move on.) E.g. I would consider myself a "Serious Roleplay" DM, if I had to use terminology like yours (given, again, I don't actually know what "Hard Fun" and "Nightmare Fuel" mean, despite having asked)--I take worldbuilding and character arcs very seriously, I want to see a character grow and change and respond to dilemmas, and I want players who care about what happens to their characters, their NPC allies, and the world the characters inhabit. And when I'm a player, I want to experience that myself--I want to care about my character and his (usually his) story, and the story of the world, and the things they do. That's actually a big part of why I find pure-attrition traps (and most other pure-attrition "challenges") so boring. Okay. What, exactly, makes a trap interesting? You're quite confident you are not such a DM. What do you do? Walk me through the process of designing and using a trap. If it actually is as valuable as you say, then adding it to my own game will be of benefit. [/QUOTE]

Verification