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What Are Traps For?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9274808" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I really don't think video games have anything to do with it. Or, at the very least, they are far and away not the most important factor.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Cover it with a blanket.</em> That's literally one of the ways to help put out a fire that's on a person specifically--quickly wrap them in a relatively non-flammable blanket (e.g. wool is almost completely flame-retardant.)</p><p></p><p>This really isn't that hard. You make it sound like it's some insane impossibility. It isn't. A little bit of basic knowledge and/or common sense.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I never said it was. I said that creative re-use or re-interpretation of one's environment (aka doing the MacGuyver thing) is hugely useful. Even the clothes on one's back can be tools, in the right situation.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's correct. I have yet to meet or interact with a single person who behaves this way as a player. I have met <em>several</em> people who would behave this way as a DM (and thus avoided any form of interacting with them <em>as</em> DMs.)</p><p></p><p>Further: It's not so cut-and-dried. As I said elsewhere, I've known DMs whose traps were not very good, but in pretty much every other way, they were quite good as DMs. That cannot make sense in your "every DM is either amazing or Bad Lazy Casual." Sometimes, a person can have certain skills and not others.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>shrug</em> Everything I've read of the still-intact pyramids at places like Tenochtitlan, Teotehuacan, and Chichen Itza says that water isn't exactly dripping from the roof, and certainly that a pool or stream of it is not going to be accessible if you could actually get inside. (Of course, most such places don't LET people inside, sometimes not even archaeologists, for a variety of reasons.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>And I have yet to see a person who genuinely, completely just <em>does not care</em> about the game they're playing. Never have I ever. I do have one player who is very, very new to this sort of thing, but even he does remember things and genuinely wants to contribute and remember. He just isn't very good at doing so (he's also forgetful about other things, so I'm fairly confident it has nothing to do with not caring about the game.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, now you're just being openly insulting. Don't presume to know what I've played, unless I've actually told you. <em>Definitely</em> don't presume that one or two things I've said means you now know my entire gaming history.</p><p></p><p>I've been playing TTRPGs since 3.0. I read a friend's 2e PHB (it was extremely confusing, particularly stuff like THAC0, so I just sort of disengaged from that.) I played multiple years of 3.X, 4e, and very close cousin games like PF1e (which is basically just 3.X with a new coat of paint) and <em>13th Age</em>. I've also played multiple not-at-all D&D systems, like <em>Shadowrun, Werewolf: the Apocalypse, Savage Worlds</em>, and <em>GURPS</em>. I even once played this one system called "Tavern Tales," but I don't think the campaign was a good fit for the group overall, folks initially were very interested but the game didn't last very long.</p><p></p><p>Further, I did not use the term "breezily." I have <em>never</em> used the term "breezily" anywhere on this forum, prior to this specific post. I have never even used the term "breezy" (before this post) except as part of quoted text from someone else. I played through a full multi-session (e.g. a couple months of weekly sessions) adventure of <em>Labyrinth Lord</em>, and a few sessions of another retroclone whose name escapes me now (not <em>Tunnels & Trolls</em>, I do remember that much, but it's been like...eight years since then?)</p><p></p><p>I'm not some dumb rube who's barely played anything at all.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No. I'm saying I've seen it numerous times in DMs I actively avoided interacting with, and even a couple dozen times with DMs I did actually play with. None of them were "Video Bad Casual DMs." They just used traps poorly, in uninteresting ways, with either obvious and dull solutions, or no actual effort put into making them soluble, or (in just one case) actually intending them to be insoluble to try to block progress away from the intended path of the story. I haven't played with that DM again--he wasn't what I would call a <em>bad</em> DM, but he wasn't a good fit for my playstyle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9274808, member: 6790260"] I really don't think video games have anything to do with it. Or, at the very least, they are far and away not the most important factor. [I]Cover it with a blanket.[/I] That's literally one of the ways to help put out a fire that's on a person specifically--quickly wrap them in a relatively non-flammable blanket (e.g. wool is almost completely flame-retardant.) This really isn't that hard. You make it sound like it's some insane impossibility. It isn't. A little bit of basic knowledge and/or common sense. I never said it was. I said that creative re-use or re-interpretation of one's environment (aka doing the MacGuyver thing) is hugely useful. Even the clothes on one's back can be tools, in the right situation. That's correct. I have yet to meet or interact with a single person who behaves this way as a player. I have met [I]several[/I] people who would behave this way as a DM (and thus avoided any form of interacting with them [I]as[/I] DMs.) Further: It's not so cut-and-dried. As I said elsewhere, I've known DMs whose traps were not very good, but in pretty much every other way, they were quite good as DMs. That cannot make sense in your "every DM is either amazing or Bad Lazy Casual." Sometimes, a person can have certain skills and not others. [I]shrug[/I] Everything I've read of the still-intact pyramids at places like Tenochtitlan, Teotehuacan, and Chichen Itza says that water isn't exactly dripping from the roof, and certainly that a pool or stream of it is not going to be accessible if you could actually get inside. (Of course, most such places don't LET people inside, sometimes not even archaeologists, for a variety of reasons.) And I have yet to see a person who genuinely, completely just [I]does not care[/I] about the game they're playing. Never have I ever. I do have one player who is very, very new to this sort of thing, but even he does remember things and genuinely wants to contribute and remember. He just isn't very good at doing so (he's also forgetful about other things, so I'm fairly confident it has nothing to do with not caring about the game.) Okay, now you're just being openly insulting. Don't presume to know what I've played, unless I've actually told you. [I]Definitely[/I] don't presume that one or two things I've said means you now know my entire gaming history. I've been playing TTRPGs since 3.0. I read a friend's 2e PHB (it was extremely confusing, particularly stuff like THAC0, so I just sort of disengaged from that.) I played multiple years of 3.X, 4e, and very close cousin games like PF1e (which is basically just 3.X with a new coat of paint) and [I]13th Age[/I]. I've also played multiple not-at-all D&D systems, like [I]Shadowrun, Werewolf: the Apocalypse, Savage Worlds[/I], and [I]GURPS[/I]. I even once played this one system called "Tavern Tales," but I don't think the campaign was a good fit for the group overall, folks initially were very interested but the game didn't last very long. Further, I did not use the term "breezily." I have [I]never[/I] used the term "breezily" anywhere on this forum, prior to this specific post. I have never even used the term "breezy" (before this post) except as part of quoted text from someone else. I played through a full multi-session (e.g. a couple months of weekly sessions) adventure of [I]Labyrinth Lord[/I], and a few sessions of another retroclone whose name escapes me now (not [I]Tunnels & Trolls[/I], I do remember that much, but it's been like...eight years since then?) I'm not some dumb rube who's barely played anything at all. No. I'm saying I've seen it numerous times in DMs I actively avoided interacting with, and even a couple dozen times with DMs I did actually play with. None of them were "Video Bad Casual DMs." They just used traps poorly, in uninteresting ways, with either obvious and dull solutions, or no actual effort put into making them soluble, or (in just one case) actually intending them to be insoluble to try to block progress away from the intended path of the story. I haven't played with that DM again--he wasn't what I would call a [I]bad[/I] DM, but he wasn't a good fit for my playstyle. [/QUOTE]
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