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<blockquote data-quote="Apeiron" data-source="post: 3288798" data-attributes="member: 42532">Modern games like WoD address all this very well.&nbsp; Willpower should be separate from Wisdom.Charisma covers physical beauty because the book says so.&nbsp; But reality indicates they two are unrelated... it is easier for a good looking person to be charismatic and vice versa. But life is replete with examples to show they are not hand in hand. Appearance itself is not minuscule, it is a huge factor in all social interactions.&nbsp; Often people make up their mind about you before you open your mouth.&nbsp; Women know within about 6 seconds if they are going to have sex with a guy or not.&nbsp; An unattractive woman might as well be a guy to most guys.&nbsp; In the presence of a beautiful woman, most men are reduced to stammering sycophants.&nbsp; Recent studies show that a beautiful woman triggers the same part of the brain as heroine in men.&nbsp; i could go on for pages.Strength is strength.... appearance is not charisma.&nbsp; My question is &quot;how do you/the book represent appearance&quot;, not &quot;should there be appearance?&quot;Again, one can be gorgeous and a total bore to be around and a homely person could be great to have a party and could lead troops into battle.&nbsp; Just because Gygax lumped them together in the 70's doesn't mean we have to stick with it.&nbsp; Anyone who went through high school or played the dating game knows that looks matter.&nbsp; The hot cheerleader could get the nerd to do her homework for her since the dawn of time.Standard fantasy setting.i could see what you mean in a realistic medieval setting, where there is little in the way of social mobility or interaction between social strata and gender roles are strictly defined.&nbsp;&nbsp; My goal is to make social interactions more than &quot;the bard rolls gather information&quot;.&nbsp; i want a female PC to flirt with the guard to distract him, or for the handsome paladin to have a bevy of groupies.&nbsp; i want the players to suffer for having ugly characters, or benefit from having good looking characters.&nbsp; i want the fugly captain of the guard to resent the handsome paladin.&nbsp; Just as reality shows us.The two suggestions of a 1st level feat are good.&nbsp; Now of course, my players are still thinking of D&amp;D as a video game of flipping switches, finding doodads and killing things won't buy it.&nbsp; Ah well.Thanks guys!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Apeiron, post: 3288798, member: 42532"] Modern games like WoD address all this very well. Willpower should be separate from Wisdom. Charisma covers physical beauty because the book says so. But reality indicates they two are unrelated... it is easier for a good looking person to be charismatic and vice versa. But life is replete with examples to show they are not hand in hand. Appearance itself is not minuscule, it is a huge factor in all social interactions. Often people make up their mind about you before you open your mouth. Women know within about 6 seconds if they are going to have sex with a guy or not. An unattractive woman might as well be a guy to most guys. In the presence of a beautiful woman, most men are reduced to stammering sycophants. Recent studies show that a beautiful woman triggers the same part of the brain as heroine in men. i could go on for pages. Strength is strength.... appearance is not charisma. My question is "[B]how[/B] do you/the book represent appearance", not "should there be appearance?" Again, one can be gorgeous and a total bore to be around and a homely person could be great to have a party and could lead troops into battle. Just because Gygax lumped them together in the 70's doesn't mean we have to stick with it. Anyone who went through high school or played the dating game knows that looks matter. The hot cheerleader could get the nerd to do her homework for her since the dawn of time. Standard fantasy setting. i could see what you mean in a realistic medieval setting, where there is little in the way of social mobility or interaction between social strata and gender roles are strictly defined. My goal is to make social interactions more than "the bard rolls gather information". i want a female PC to flirt with the guard to distract him, or for the handsome paladin to have a bevy of groupies. i want the players to suffer for having ugly characters, or benefit from having good looking characters. i want the fugly captain of the guard to resent the handsome paladin. Just as reality shows us. The two suggestions of a 1st level feat are good. Now of course, my players are still thinking of D&D as a video game of flipping switches, finding doodads and killing things won't buy it. Ah well. Thanks guys! [/QUOTE]

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