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What are your biggest immersion breakers, rules wise?
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<blockquote data-quote="DammitVictor" data-source="post: 7828711" data-attributes="member: 6750908"><p>They were all near-misses, right? So near, you had to make a Fortitude save from the <em>mere proximity</em> to the poison...</p><p></p><p>Honestly, the usual culprits don't bother me. Leveling, and all the things that come with leveling, are features I consider <em>personally desirable</em> in the game mechanics because I am willing to embrace them as desirable features in the narratives they represent. This is the kind of fantasy I want from D&D.</p><p></p><p>You've all heard me bitching about these things before, but what breaks my immersion are the opposite things... the things where, ironically, in the name of <em>realism</em> these superhuman and borderline godlike figures can't accomplish feats that trained human warriors and athletes are simply expected to do. The dichotomy between a 3rd level spell (character level 5th) and a +18 rank skill check (character level 15th), and the apologia for that dichotomy... breaks my teeth along with my immersion.</p><p></p><p>It's strange for something that occurs out-of-game to break immersion, but large portions of the alignment rules do that-- the morality depicted by them <em>doesn't make sense</em>, and every ironclad rule about class alignments that <em>must be present</em> to "represent the archetype" of the class has half a dozen exceptions that make the rule itself even more incomprehensible. It's really hard to portray a consistent ethos when the rules you're supposed to be following are only barely implied and seem to be inconsistent.</p><p></p><p>(This is not about Paladins. Paladins, as much as I want them opened up for Neutral and Chaotic Good, still <em>make sense</em> in their current form.)</p><p></p><p>Everything about 3e/5e multiclassing is broken. A lot of people complain, more or less reasonably, about the wrongness of someone training all of their life for their first level in their first class, only to pick up their first level in a completely unrelated class by spending the night at a Holiday Inn Express. Yeah, that's legit.</p><p></p><p>But what gets me isn't starting a new class. It's <em>stopping</em>.</p><p></p><p>This skillset you've been actively developing your entire life, right? This skillset that you continue improving just by using it. You're going to tell me that you're going to stop getting better at it, even though you're still actively using it every day, because you're consciously focusing on the skills you picked up last week?</p><p></p><p>It wasn't much better in AD&D, but in order for a dual-class character to advance in their new class, they had to not use any of the class abilities from their old class-- doesn't quite make sense, but at least it answers why characters stopped advancement in their old class.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I see this assumption a lot, and it's weird. Mail armor, certainly, reduces the damage you take from being hit by a weapon. But steel plate armor? Steel plate armor either negates the hit entirely, or makes the hit a lot worse when the armor itself starts digging into the wound.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Lot of recorded cases of the English longbow killing a knight's horse by going through his armor, his leg, his armor again, his saddle, and then the horse itself. Build an arrow to pierce armor, it's going to pierce armor.</p><p></p><p>Agree with you on crossbows. Designers decided to make crossbows Simple Weapons, then made them suck because they're Simple Weapons, and now designers are justifying that crossbows suck because "some things just aren't as useful in real life". No basis in reality, just generations of gamers confusing a xeroxed copy of a copy of the map for the terrain.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Leather armor is a real thing that exists. Like shields, it's much more effective than it has ever been portrayed in D&D. Unless it's too hot outside.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DammitVictor, post: 7828711, member: 6750908"] They were all near-misses, right? So near, you had to make a Fortitude save from the [i]mere proximity[/i] to the poison... Honestly, the usual culprits don't bother me. Leveling, and all the things that come with leveling, are features I consider [i]personally desirable[/i] in the game mechanics because I am willing to embrace them as desirable features in the narratives they represent. This is the kind of fantasy I want from D&D. You've all heard me bitching about these things before, but what breaks my immersion are the opposite things... the things where, ironically, in the name of [i]realism[/i] these superhuman and borderline godlike figures can't accomplish feats that trained human warriors and athletes are simply expected to do. The dichotomy between a 3rd level spell (character level 5th) and a +18 rank skill check (character level 15th), and the apologia for that dichotomy... breaks my teeth along with my immersion. It's strange for something that occurs out-of-game to break immersion, but large portions of the alignment rules do that-- the morality depicted by them [i]doesn't make sense[/i], and every ironclad rule about class alignments that [i]must be present[/i] to "represent the archetype" of the class has half a dozen exceptions that make the rule itself even more incomprehensible. It's really hard to portray a consistent ethos when the rules you're supposed to be following are only barely implied and seem to be inconsistent. (This is not about Paladins. Paladins, as much as I want them opened up for Neutral and Chaotic Good, still [i]make sense[/i] in their current form.) Everything about 3e/5e multiclassing is broken. A lot of people complain, more or less reasonably, about the wrongness of someone training all of their life for their first level in their first class, only to pick up their first level in a completely unrelated class by spending the night at a Holiday Inn Express. Yeah, that's legit. But what gets me isn't starting a new class. It's [i]stopping[/i]. This skillset you've been actively developing your entire life, right? This skillset that you continue improving just by using it. You're going to tell me that you're going to stop getting better at it, even though you're still actively using it every day, because you're consciously focusing on the skills you picked up last week? It wasn't much better in AD&D, but in order for a dual-class character to advance in their new class, they had to not use any of the class abilities from their old class-- doesn't quite make sense, but at least it answers why characters stopped advancement in their old class. I see this assumption a lot, and it's weird. Mail armor, certainly, reduces the damage you take from being hit by a weapon. But steel plate armor? Steel plate armor either negates the hit entirely, or makes the hit a lot worse when the armor itself starts digging into the wound. Lot of recorded cases of the English longbow killing a knight's horse by going through his armor, his leg, his armor again, his saddle, and then the horse itself. Build an arrow to pierce armor, it's going to pierce armor. Agree with you on crossbows. Designers decided to make crossbows Simple Weapons, then made them suck because they're Simple Weapons, and now designers are justifying that crossbows suck because "some things just aren't as useful in real life". No basis in reality, just generations of gamers confusing a xeroxed copy of a copy of the map for the terrain. Leather armor is a real thing that exists. Like shields, it's much more effective than it has ever been portrayed in D&D. Unless it's too hot outside. [/QUOTE]
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