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What are your biggest immersion breakers, rules wise?
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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7829904" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>I appreciate that. Sorry if I came across as argumentative. Was there anything specific about my comment that bothered you? If my tone is sounding more confrontational than I mean it to, I’d like to try to fix that.</p><p></p><p>I’m getting the impression that “best effort” means something different to you than it does to me. But I’ll try to answer your questions.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I would say yes, it bothers me, because for some reason the check is “single-opportunity.” Why? If I don’t pick the lock after 10 minutes or however long the DM decides the attempt makes, what’s stopping me from just spending that much time trying it again (and again, and again, until I succeed)?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Nothing, if you’ve only got a single attempt worth of time.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No, because if you miss, you can try again on your next turn. Whereas, under what I’m calling “best effort,” you can’t just attempt to pick the lock again on the next interval of time that lock picking takes. As I understand it, the argument in favor of that resolution style is “you already did try again, that check represented your best effort.” And that is immersion breaking to me, because I cannot understand how a 2 out of 20 could possibly represent my character’s best effort. My character is literally capable of doing much better, so what gives?</p><p></p><p></p><p>The net result of several sword strikes being represented by a single attack roll is not the thing I take issue with. I take issue with being told that I can’t take another several swings and get another attack roll, because the first one represented my best effort.</p><p></p><p>Of course, that never seems to happen in combat. For some reason, DMs who use “best effort,” only seem to apply it to skill checks.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right. I agree with this. The way to do that is to say “you (eventually) succeed.”</p><p></p><p></p><p>I’m having trouble following this.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I wasn’t going to put it quite that bluntly because people who use this technique seem to object strongly to having it pointed out that it is contrary to 5e RAW, but yes, I agree. I also find it immersion breaking when DMs do that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree. They should be allowing me to pay the cost or risk the consequence of failure to try as many times as I like. Or, if there is no cost or consequence, they should be narrating my (eventual) success.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7829904, member: 6779196"] I appreciate that. Sorry if I came across as argumentative. Was there anything specific about my comment that bothered you? If my tone is sounding more confrontational than I mean it to, I’d like to try to fix that. I’m getting the impression that “best effort” means something different to you than it does to me. But I’ll try to answer your questions. I would say yes, it bothers me, because for some reason the check is “single-opportunity.” Why? If I don’t pick the lock after 10 minutes or however long the DM decides the attempt makes, what’s stopping me from just spending that much time trying it again (and again, and again, until I succeed)? Nothing, if you’ve only got a single attempt worth of time. No, because if you miss, you can try again on your next turn. Whereas, under what I’m calling “best effort,” you can’t just attempt to pick the lock again on the next interval of time that lock picking takes. As I understand it, the argument in favor of that resolution style is “you already did try again, that check represented your best effort.” And that is immersion breaking to me, because I cannot understand how a 2 out of 20 could possibly represent my character’s best effort. My character is literally capable of doing much better, so what gives? The net result of several sword strikes being represented by a single attack roll is not the thing I take issue with. I take issue with being told that I can’t take another several swings and get another attack roll, because the first one represented my best effort. Of course, that never seems to happen in combat. For some reason, DMs who use “best effort,” only seem to apply it to skill checks. Right. I agree with this. The way to do that is to say “you (eventually) succeed.” I’m having trouble following this. I wasn’t going to put it quite that bluntly because people who use this technique seem to object strongly to having it pointed out that it is contrary to 5e RAW, but yes, I agree. I also find it immersion breaking when DMs do that. I disagree. They should be allowing me to pay the cost or risk the consequence of failure to try as many times as I like. Or, if there is no cost or consequence, they should be narrating my (eventual) success. [/QUOTE]
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