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What are your biggest immersion breakers, rules wise?
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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7829981" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>I think the issue was that both of us were approaching our statements in an argument format, and I fell into that pattern as a result, and perhaps came across as challenging your POV rather than trying to figure it out. </p><p></p><p> I think I communicated poorly here. I was asking about the difference between rolling poorly when the roll represents a single attempt, and there is no time for another try. For instance, “fail on a 1” houserules break my immersion completely when they cause my character with a modifier higher than the DC to fail, even though he is so good at the thing that he could do it in his sleep. The d20 is too swingy for that to model anything believable. </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>so, yeah, that isn’t what best effort resolution refers to as I understand it. It’s not that you did the best job that you are hypothetically capable of doing, it’s that the roll represents you total efforts. The best you did <em>in that time</em> was the die result. </p><p></p><p>So, the DM says, “okay make a check for a day of trying to get the lock open.”</p><p></p><p>You aren’t rolling to see how good you are in general, you are rolling to see whether you were able to perform at your top level, or if you just don’t have it that day. You’re rolling a single roll to represent many attempts. </p><p></p><p>It’s the same as an attack, in every way except the amount of time represented. Just like how some games will resolve a whole fight with one roll. </p><p></p><p> Right, combat and out of combat resolution are always different in some ways. That can certainly lead to immersion issues related to consistency. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Right. I agree with this. The way to do that is to say “you (eventually) succeed.”</p></blockquote><p>I disagree, but that’s fine. (For clarity, I think that “you succeed, and/but” with the “and/but” being determined by the die roll, is a better model) </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Right, if there is a roll there, it should be because the DM feels there is a consequence to rolling low. </p><p></p><p>In the example I gave, I was referring to the Xanathar’s Guide rules for downtime activities. Generally, if you want to mechanically resolve what happens as a result of spending the downtime gambling, you make 3 Ability checks with 1 or more proficiencies (skills, tools, etc). 1 success, 2 successes, and 3 successes all mean different things in terms of how the gambling played out. </p><p></p><p>This more closely models combat’s “many attacks in an Attack” method of resolution, but is also still pretty much a “best effort” resolution. </p><p></p><p></p><p>That’s what failing forward is, though. </p><p></p><p>Lastly, if your DM is treating that single die roll as immutable forever, they’re using that form of resolution wrong. </p><p></p><p>It’s meant to be your “best effort” within a specific span of time. Ie, “you didn’t crack it during the week of downtime you had, but you can try again next time you have some time to sit with it.”</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7829981, member: 6704184"] I think the issue was that both of us were approaching our statements in an argument format, and I fell into that pattern as a result, and perhaps came across as challenging your POV rather than trying to figure it out. I think I communicated poorly here. I was asking about the difference between rolling poorly when the roll represents a single attempt, and there is no time for another try. For instance, “fail on a 1” houserules break my immersion completely when they cause my character with a modifier higher than the DC to fail, even though he is so good at the thing that he could do it in his sleep. The d20 is too swingy for that to model anything believable. so, yeah, that isn’t what best effort resolution refers to as I understand it. It’s not that you did the best job that you are hypothetically capable of doing, it’s that the roll represents you total efforts. The best you did [I]in that time[/I] was the die result. So, the DM says, “okay make a check for a day of trying to get the lock open.” You aren’t rolling to see how good you are in general, you are rolling to see whether you were able to perform at your top level, or if you just don’t have it that day. You’re rolling a single roll to represent many attempts. It’s the same as an attack, in every way except the amount of time represented. Just like how some games will resolve a whole fight with one roll. Right, combat and out of combat resolution are always different in some ways. That can certainly lead to immersion issues related to consistency. Right. I agree with this. The way to do that is to say “you (eventually) succeed.”[/quote] I disagree, but that’s fine. (For clarity, I think that “you succeed, and/but” with the “and/but” being determined by the die roll, is a better model) Right, if there is a roll there, it should be because the DM feels there is a consequence to rolling low. In the example I gave, I was referring to the Xanathar’s Guide rules for downtime activities. Generally, if you want to mechanically resolve what happens as a result of spending the downtime gambling, you make 3 Ability checks with 1 or more proficiencies (skills, tools, etc). 1 success, 2 successes, and 3 successes all mean different things in terms of how the gambling played out. This more closely models combat’s “many attacks in an Attack” method of resolution, but is also still pretty much a “best effort” resolution. That’s what failing forward is, though. Lastly, if your DM is treating that single die roll as immutable forever, they’re using that form of resolution wrong. It’s meant to be your “best effort” within a specific span of time. Ie, “you didn’t crack it during the week of downtime you had, but you can try again next time you have some time to sit with it.” [/QUOTE]
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