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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 2967110" data-attributes="member: 20805">And I too have never properly run a game <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Its all way to subjective of an issue anyway. Perhaps I spoke too concisely... My version of the above describes your normal gathering of gamers for a game that is not being run by a GM who has a richly detailed setting from which to work with. Instead the GM relies on published modules purchases with thier hard earned money.... In this sort of setup, the players should expect a level of railroading..after all why would the group go out to defeat the Temple of Elemental Evil at 1st level? Heck.. a 'properly played' in character 1st level should run away from that temple in the hopes that they will survive... but the GM spent some good money on that module so the player chooses to follow. In an ideal world the GM would have a rich detailed setting with plot-hooks galore and total player freedom. Personally I have only seen one game that reached even close to this stage....and the campaign is now in its 15th year... each character is invested in the game world with thier own motivations, goals, and and nemisisessses.{spelling?}   And the characters background restricted player freedom more than anything else....But.. I think its all really a  matter of perspective. Players cannot manupipulate events/circumstances that don't exist. Its up to the GM to provide the events/circumstances and present them in such a fashion that the players enjoy the game instead of dwelling on meta-game things like 'railroads' or 'balance'.. it should be a fun game. Part and parcel of playing in a world described to you in the words of a person is the intrinsic manipulation by that one person based on what they describe and how they describe it.  Fer instance, I once went into deep detail on a dagger the PC's found in a closet. Had a card written up and a cute drawing of the wicked black dagger... The players assumed it was a plot device or special item because I had spent time on it. Manipulation? yup. But they carried that normal dagger around for 4 more sessions waiting for something 'kewl' to happen with it.  And I cannot imagine a game where DM manipulation doesn't exist. Its just that the better DM's do a better job of hiding the manipulation behind an illusion of player free choice.  What exactly is manipulating? Providing a drunkard in the bar to impart knowledge to the group regarding the BBEG that they would not otherwise discover? Ensuring that thier treasure allotment is equal to the wealth guidelines and stacked with items to assist in the next big encounter? Having brigands attack a caravan just as the group approaches? Having the group meet in a bar? Flashing PC signs? CR equivilent encounters? .....Where do you draw the line between running the game and railroading? As mentioned before, YMMV. Funny thing is, despite my outlook on this topic, I would be quite content playing in RC's game, or in Quasqueton's for that matter. The whole point of the game is to have fun... or so I have been told.</blockquote>

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