Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What can Next do to pull in 4e campaigns?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6256571" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">As a DM, being incentivized to look up seldom used spells prevents players from surprising you with them.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Neither system does this. You get advice on properly balancing monster abilities via advice to the DM on properly balancing monsters. There were lots of subtle things about monsters in 4e that were not covered by the creating monsters section. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">That’s your experience. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Mine is me rubbing my temples and going “I just want a fight with duergars, why do I have to learn 8-12 unique powers and figure out how to synergize them in combat so my players don’t faceroll over the encounter.” Or having 3/5ths of an encounter built, and scanning through the Monster Builder looking for a level appropriate soldier or skirmisher that works with the rest of the combatants and can proc their special abilities. </span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Ugh.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Just ugh.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">I hate that so much. The whole “this power is too complex to be summarized so let’s remove it” attitude. The “this power has no combat use so dump it” thought process. I dislike the reduction of monsters from part of the world to speedbumps the PCs thump over during an encounter. Monsters as nothing more than big bads of xp to be wacked like piñatas until treasure falls out.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Monsters are there to be antagonists for your players. Most of the time that means combat but not always. Sometimes that means roleplaying and diplomacy. Sometimes it means trickery and guile. Sometimes it means stealth and avoidance. Sometimes the PCs are interacting with a monster without realizing it. Sometimes a monster is helping the PCs. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that wizardly monsters should be a subtype of wizard. They should use wizardly mechanics. The monsters that cast spells should cast spells. And if a monster is going to use a power that is <u>functionally identical to a spell</u> just call it the damn spell. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">If something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck you call it a duck. If something looks like a <em>fireball</em>, has the same mechanical impact as a <em>fireball</em> then it’s a <em>fireball</em>.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">I knew what a <em>fireball </em>was years before I played D&D. Because it’s part of the fantasy zeitgeist. It’s part of the culture. It’s in forty years of books and video games. It’s universal. </span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">That’s the D&D magic system. Anyone can learn magic and it works reliably. Hence <em>Eberron</em>. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">If you want to change for you your world you certainly can (I’ve done so in the past and there are innumerable campaign settings that tweak magic), but by default that is how it works.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Yes… that is was what I said. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Blandness has its place. If you just need to deal quick damage, bland works. If there are a bunch of bland powers it makes the exciting and unique ones stand out. Bosses need to be exciting and dynamic, but mooks and minions don’t. The waves of colour coded flunkies the BBEG throws at the PCs don’t need a vast array of unique snowflake powers. </span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Most 4e powers blurred together to me after a year of play. Because I had no idea what any individual power did, I often stopped narrating fights. It was really hard to find any memorable and exciting abilities when they are were unique snowflakes. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">http://youtu.be/A8I9pYCl9AQ</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">See, I loved that. Because I had better things to do as a new DM than try and figure out the social structure of orcs or what a gnoll tribe was like. I was happy the book told me the baseline. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">And, even then, I knew if I wanted orcs to be different in my world they would be. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">For my very first campaign setting I happily ignored the book and made minotaurs a race. </span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 6256571, member: 37579"] [FONT=Tahoma]As a DM, being incentivized to look up seldom used spells prevents players from surprising you with them.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Neither system does this. You get advice on properly balancing monster abilities via advice to the DM on properly balancing monsters. There were lots of subtle things about monsters in 4e that were not covered by the creating monsters section. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]That’s your experience. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Mine is me rubbing my temples and going “I just want a fight with duergars, why do I have to learn 8-12 unique powers and figure out how to synergize them in combat so my players don’t faceroll over the encounter.” Or having 3/5ths of an encounter built, and scanning through the Monster Builder looking for a level appropriate soldier or skirmisher that works with the rest of the combatants and can proc their special abilities. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Ugh.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Just ugh.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]I hate that so much. The whole “this power is too complex to be summarized so let’s remove it” attitude. The “this power has no combat use so dump it” thought process. I dislike the reduction of monsters from part of the world to speedbumps the PCs thump over during an encounter. Monsters as nothing more than big bads of xp to be wacked like piñatas until treasure falls out.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Monsters are there to be antagonists for your players. Most of the time that means combat but not always. Sometimes that means roleplaying and diplomacy. Sometimes it means trickery and guile. Sometimes it means stealth and avoidance. Sometimes the PCs are interacting with a monster without realizing it. Sometimes a monster is helping the PCs. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that wizardly monsters should be a subtype of wizard. They should use wizardly mechanics. The monsters that cast spells should cast spells. And if a monster is going to use a power that is [U]functionally identical to a spell[/U] just call it the damn spell. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]If something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck you call it a duck. If something looks like a [I]fireball[/I], has the same mechanical impact as a [I]fireball[/I] then it’s a [I]fireball[/I].[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]I knew what a [I]fireball [/I]was years before I played D&D. Because it’s part of the fantasy zeitgeist. It’s part of the culture. It’s in forty years of books and video games. It’s universal. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]That’s the D&D magic system. Anyone can learn magic and it works reliably. Hence [I]Eberron[/I]. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]If you want to change for you your world you certainly can (I’ve done so in the past and there are innumerable campaign settings that tweak magic), but by default that is how it works.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Yes… that is was what I said. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Blandness has its place. If you just need to deal quick damage, bland works. If there are a bunch of bland powers it makes the exciting and unique ones stand out. Bosses need to be exciting and dynamic, but mooks and minions don’t. The waves of colour coded flunkies the BBEG throws at the PCs don’t need a vast array of unique snowflake powers. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Most 4e powers blurred together to me after a year of play. Because I had no idea what any individual power did, I often stopped narrating fights. It was really hard to find any memorable and exciting abilities when they are were unique snowflakes. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]http://youtu.be/A8I9pYCl9AQ[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][FONT=Tahoma]See, I loved that. Because I had better things to do as a new DM than try and figure out the social structure of orcs or what a gnoll tribe was like. I was happy the book told me the baseline. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]And, even then, I knew if I wanted orcs to be different in my world they would be. [/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]For my very first campaign setting I happily ignored the book and made minotaurs a race. [/FONT] [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What can Next do to pull in 4e campaigns?
Top