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What can you do with Diplomacy?
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<blockquote data-quote="Liminal Syzygy" data-source="post: 1105819" data-attributes="member: 1373"><p>First I wanted to say that this is a very interesting thread, I'm glad you've started it. This has been looked at before but it's always an issue that can use more examination.</p><p></p><p>As far as your first point, the importance of role-play... I had problems in the past as one of my players would get upset when an NPC wouldn't give him what he wanted, and start making veiled threats and insulting the NPC... and then he would ask to roll his impressive Diplomacy check. I gave him significant negative circumstance modifiers in that case. I think such modifiers are reasonable, and help maintain a certain level of realism.</p><p></p><p>I liked a solution I saw here recently in which the player's role-playing was the actual D20 result, so "I tell him 'Dude, lay off!'" would be a 5, and "I tell him 'We come in peace! There is no need for conflict!'" would be a 10.</p><p></p><p>I think there is a clear difference between asking players to use a certain amount of intelligence and common sense in their diplomatic approach--at a level which as DM you know they are perfectly capable (you can adjust your expectations downward if not) and expecting them to stand up and perform a spontaneous oration that brings tears to everyone's eyes at the table.</p><p></p><p>As far as the AU chart not having such a notation, as far as I can see there are no circumstance modifiers listed on that chart or under the skill at all in the AU book. I don't think that necessary signifies that there should never be any modifiers whatsoever to the DCs. (And my suggestion to work out the circumstance modifiers above is exactly related to that, to come up with a more comprehensive chart of circumstance modifiers that people can agree on.)</p><p></p><p>Finally, in the other thread you show how a 6th level character can achieve a result of 51 on diplomacy thus making the bad guy retire and leave town. You seem to be advocating an approach in which there is nothing such a character can't talk themselves out of or somehow convince someone to agree to, and at 6th level. Therefore you can wander the land, handling 90% of all challenges with your amazing diplomatic skills, and just call out your friends to deal with non-intelligent creatures, mechanical challenges and the like. While I definitely think diplomacy should be a worthwhile investment, and players should be able to impact the game with it, I don't see where the fun in such an approach is. Such a character could easily deal with any situation involving intelligent creatures.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Liminal Syzygy, post: 1105819, member: 1373"] First I wanted to say that this is a very interesting thread, I'm glad you've started it. This has been looked at before but it's always an issue that can use more examination. As far as your first point, the importance of role-play... I had problems in the past as one of my players would get upset when an NPC wouldn't give him what he wanted, and start making veiled threats and insulting the NPC... and then he would ask to roll his impressive Diplomacy check. I gave him significant negative circumstance modifiers in that case. I think such modifiers are reasonable, and help maintain a certain level of realism. I liked a solution I saw here recently in which the player's role-playing was the actual D20 result, so "I tell him 'Dude, lay off!'" would be a 5, and "I tell him 'We come in peace! There is no need for conflict!'" would be a 10. I think there is a clear difference between asking players to use a certain amount of intelligence and common sense in their diplomatic approach--at a level which as DM you know they are perfectly capable (you can adjust your expectations downward if not) and expecting them to stand up and perform a spontaneous oration that brings tears to everyone's eyes at the table. As far as the AU chart not having such a notation, as far as I can see there are no circumstance modifiers listed on that chart or under the skill at all in the AU book. I don't think that necessary signifies that there should never be any modifiers whatsoever to the DCs. (And my suggestion to work out the circumstance modifiers above is exactly related to that, to come up with a more comprehensive chart of circumstance modifiers that people can agree on.) Finally, in the other thread you show how a 6th level character can achieve a result of 51 on diplomacy thus making the bad guy retire and leave town. You seem to be advocating an approach in which there is nothing such a character can't talk themselves out of or somehow convince someone to agree to, and at 6th level. Therefore you can wander the land, handling 90% of all challenges with your amazing diplomatic skills, and just call out your friends to deal with non-intelligent creatures, mechanical challenges and the like. While I definitely think diplomacy should be a worthwhile investment, and players should be able to impact the game with it, I don't see where the fun in such an approach is. Such a character could easily deal with any situation involving intelligent creatures. [/QUOTE]
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