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<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 4284954" data-attributes="member: 59082">Cadfan, I generally agree with you. It is unfair, or just plain erroneous, to compare 4ed now to ALL of 3ed...I mean, of course 3ed has more, it has 8 years of publishing!DonTadow, I hear your complaint, but I wonder if you are playing the right game. I mean, part of the appeal of D&amp;D over, say, a Storyteller-type game, is that you get to use all kinds of dice: d4, d6, d8, d12, d20, 10d10, 2d12, etc. Storyteller is just multiples of d10; many &quot;Indie&quot; RPGs just use d6. Now this has its strengths, for with less emphasis on rolling, there can be more on &quot;roling&quot;. But I think D&amp;D has always had rolling as a kind of base level, from which you can &quot;role&quot; as much as you like.To use the infamous Gamist/Narrativist/Simulationist theory--and with two assumptions in mind: That all games include some elements of all three archetypes, and a given gaming group can modify any game to suit their own tendencies--it seems that D&amp;D is, and always has been, primarily &quot;Gamist, secondarily Narrativist, thirdly Simulationist (although 2 and 3 are arguable, I suppose, and depend upon the group).So I wonder, is D&amp;D the game for you and your players? And if you like the basics of it but still want to do less rolling, why not use a simplified version or cousin, like one of the d20 hybrids?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 4284954, member: 59082"] Cadfan, I generally agree with you. It is unfair, or just plain erroneous, to compare 4ed now to ALL of 3ed...I mean, of course 3ed has more, it has 8 years of publishing! DonTadow, I hear your complaint, but I wonder if you are playing the right game. I mean, part of the appeal of D&D over, say, a Storyteller-type game, is that you get to use all kinds of dice: d4, d6, d8, d12, d20, 10d10, 2d12, etc. Storyteller is just multiples of d10; many "Indie" RPGs just use d6. Now this has its strengths, for with less emphasis on rolling, there can be more on "roling". But I think D&D has always had rolling as a kind of base level, from which you can "role" as much as you like. To use the infamous Gamist/Narrativist/Simulationist theory--and with two assumptions in mind: That all games include some elements of all three archetypes, and a given gaming group can modify any game to suit their own tendencies--it seems that D&D is, and always has been, primarily "Gamist, secondarily Narrativist, thirdly Simulationist (although 2 and 3 are arguable, I suppose, and depend upon the group). So I wonder, is D&D the game for you and your players? And if you like the basics of it but still want to do less rolling, why not use a simplified version or cousin, like one of the d20 hybrids? [/QUOTE]

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