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<blockquote data-quote="Toras" data-source="post: 4286025" data-attributes="member: 13626">As that is your take, I must ask that you defend it against my inquiry and counter arguement.&nbsp; For magi-tech, while I agree some of the larger uses of magic like raising an island and a floating city would beg for a ritual, what about functions that require that the magic take less time to set than a mundane action or be inexpensive enough that it can be unbiquitous.&nbsp; I'm thinking if you were to play in a Netheral, Halraa, or Shade game.&nbsp; High magic empires, where its use is both easy and ubitiquitous.&nbsp; Where magic is highly understood and items would be required to function continously or many times per day.&nbsp; From what I've seen of 4e it doesn't handle that well, and perhaps I missed the many times a day part of the items a day rules.For Gnomish Inventions, (Skill challenges?&nbsp; What skills, as it seems that 4e lacks it utterly and given the way that the skills system is set up, people of completely unappropriate backgrounds could attempt such a thing as well.&nbsp; More over this applies to any non-magical craft such as siege weapons or alchemical substances.&nbsp; The advantage is that anyone can do it, but the disadvantage is that anyone can do it.&nbsp;&nbsp; Can the characters build such weapons and hire crews to man them?&nbsp; Can they lure a dragon or another such creature into traps of their own design?&nbsp;&nbsp; Can they fortify their stronghold/homebase against attacks while they are away?Finally Planescape, are you serious?Alignment is easy enough to fix and adding a planar version of the Lore skill isn't that hard either.&nbsp; But my gods man, a thousand minor changes would have to be made.&nbsp; Everything planar gutted.&nbsp; Wide tracks of the monsters rewritten.&nbsp; All those non-combat abilities of monsters coming into play if you want to play one or ally yourself with one (not to mention trade with them).&nbsp;&nbsp; Baatzuu, Tanari, and Yugoloths, o my.&nbsp; Lack of shapeshift amongst celestials and fiends a problem.&nbsp;&nbsp; Heroes becoming demi-gods on something resembling a regular base and being generally more durable as impacts on the setting.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Toras, post: 4286025, member: 13626"] As that is your take, I must ask that you defend it against my inquiry and counter arguement. For magi-tech, while I agree some of the larger uses of magic like raising an island and a floating city would beg for a ritual, what about functions that require that the magic take less time to set than a mundane action or be inexpensive enough that it can be unbiquitous. I'm thinking if you were to play in a Netheral, Halraa, or Shade game. High magic empires, where its use is both easy and ubitiquitous. Where magic is highly understood and items would be required to function continously or many times per day. From what I've seen of 4e it doesn't handle that well, and perhaps I missed the many times a day part of the items a day rules. For Gnomish Inventions, (Skill challenges? What skills, as it seems that 4e lacks it utterly and given the way that the skills system is set up, people of completely unappropriate backgrounds could attempt such a thing as well. More over this applies to any non-magical craft such as siege weapons or alchemical substances. The advantage is that anyone can do it, but the disadvantage is that anyone can do it. Can the characters build such weapons and hire crews to man them? Can they lure a dragon or another such creature into traps of their own design? Can they fortify their stronghold/homebase against attacks while they are away? Finally Planescape, are you serious? Alignment is easy enough to fix and adding a planar version of the Lore skill isn't that hard either. But my gods man, a thousand minor changes would have to be made. Everything planar gutted. Wide tracks of the monsters rewritten. All those non-combat abilities of monsters coming into play if you want to play one or ally yourself with one (not to mention trade with them). Baatzuu, Tanari, and Yugoloths, o my. Lack of shapeshift amongst celestials and fiends a problem. Heroes becoming demi-gods on something resembling a regular base and being generally more durable as impacts on the setting. [/QUOTE]

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