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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What changes aren't being made in 4E that you think should be
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<blockquote data-quote="Set" data-source="post: 3970025" data-attributes="member: 41584"><p>Total agreement here. Not every elf is going to be all longsword, rapier and bow. Some are gonna go with spears. Some are gonna go with Aerenal Scimitars. Some are gonna go with elven 'katana.' Some are gonna scorn armed combat entirely and be Monks who fight only with the weapons nature gave them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yup. And if that Fighter doesn't want heavy or medium armor proficiency or shield proficiency, he can pick up something that makes him more effective without all of that heavy stuff, as befits his swashbucklery concept.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Definitely. 2 skill pts. per level, often combined with Half Orcs who lose half of that due to their crappy Intelligence, is just a royal pain in the butt. *Animals* have higher ranks in skills than most Fighters!</p><p></p><p>As for your thoughts on classes, I'm partial to less core classes, but all of those core classes being *widely* variable. The 'Fighter' class would be able to pick up the Feats necessary to be a Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, Monk, Swashbuckler, Samurai, etc.</p><p></p><p>And all PrCs would be scrapped in favor of Feats. If Gonzo the Ubermage wants Spell Power, he can just pick it up as a Feat at the appropriate level, he doesn't need X levels of Archmage, or to become a Red Wizard of Thay.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd ditch Cleric spells entirely and replace them with bonus feats that allow him to use his channeling powers in different ways (to heal, to smite, to buff, to summon servants of his god, etc). Add to that a bunch more uses of 'turn/rebuke' per day, and it's a shiny new class that doesn't 'cast spells' so much as 'channel their faith.'</p><p></p><p>The Cleric could even come in two flavors, the 'cloistered' cleric who has lots of 'channeling' attempts per day, but light armor and simple weapons, and the 'battle cleric,' who has less channeling attempts per day, heavy armor, more hit points and a favored weapon.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes to all. A better system for skills in particular. Skill Tricks might simply be folded into higher ranked uses of skills that have prerequisites (if you have 5 ranks of X and 2 ranks of Y, you can do this. Doesn't matter if you have a +25 to the check because of some spell or racial ability, you gotta actually pay to play).</p><p></p><p>Skills should be more than an afterthought, IMO, but a valid tool, making a 'skill-monkey' character such as a Rogue a valid concept without having to give them yet another role as 'damage dealer / sneak attacker' to make up for the paucity of the skill system.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Either system sounds interesting, but I haven't played around with them enough to know how changing these things affect the game. (I do use the Toughness Save mechanic a lot in Mutants & Masterminds, and it can get kinda all-or-nothing at times, which is cool for superhero play, but I'm not sure would play so well in a fantasy style game. Perhaps 2d10 instead of 1d20 would 'curve' the line a bit?)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Psychic's Handbook style 'psionics' appeals to me a lot more than WotC Psionics, that's for sure. I think this would be an impossible sell, 'though. Psionics are pretty darn popular as is, for a niche product.</p><p></p><p>I do really have to get my hands on Elements of Magic, Revised. I've heard a lot of good stuff about it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hell yes. The character already has to blow a precious feat and a crapload of money on the process, the exp thing is just injury on top of insult.</p><p></p><p>Based on your list, I suggest that you might also want to do something about Metamagic Feats. They seem like the sort of thing that don't go as well with the view of the game you are promoting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Set, post: 3970025, member: 41584"] Total agreement here. Not every elf is going to be all longsword, rapier and bow. Some are gonna go with spears. Some are gonna go with Aerenal Scimitars. Some are gonna go with elven 'katana.' Some are gonna scorn armed combat entirely and be Monks who fight only with the weapons nature gave them. Yup. And if that Fighter doesn't want heavy or medium armor proficiency or shield proficiency, he can pick up something that makes him more effective without all of that heavy stuff, as befits his swashbucklery concept. Definitely. 2 skill pts. per level, often combined with Half Orcs who lose half of that due to their crappy Intelligence, is just a royal pain in the butt. *Animals* have higher ranks in skills than most Fighters! As for your thoughts on classes, I'm partial to less core classes, but all of those core classes being *widely* variable. The 'Fighter' class would be able to pick up the Feats necessary to be a Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, Monk, Swashbuckler, Samurai, etc. And all PrCs would be scrapped in favor of Feats. If Gonzo the Ubermage wants Spell Power, he can just pick it up as a Feat at the appropriate level, he doesn't need X levels of Archmage, or to become a Red Wizard of Thay. I'd ditch Cleric spells entirely and replace them with bonus feats that allow him to use his channeling powers in different ways (to heal, to smite, to buff, to summon servants of his god, etc). Add to that a bunch more uses of 'turn/rebuke' per day, and it's a shiny new class that doesn't 'cast spells' so much as 'channel their faith.' The Cleric could even come in two flavors, the 'cloistered' cleric who has lots of 'channeling' attempts per day, but light armor and simple weapons, and the 'battle cleric,' who has less channeling attempts per day, heavy armor, more hit points and a favored weapon. Yes to all. A better system for skills in particular. Skill Tricks might simply be folded into higher ranked uses of skills that have prerequisites (if you have 5 ranks of X and 2 ranks of Y, you can do this. Doesn't matter if you have a +25 to the check because of some spell or racial ability, you gotta actually pay to play). Skills should be more than an afterthought, IMO, but a valid tool, making a 'skill-monkey' character such as a Rogue a valid concept without having to give them yet another role as 'damage dealer / sneak attacker' to make up for the paucity of the skill system. Either system sounds interesting, but I haven't played around with them enough to know how changing these things affect the game. (I do use the Toughness Save mechanic a lot in Mutants & Masterminds, and it can get kinda all-or-nothing at times, which is cool for superhero play, but I'm not sure would play so well in a fantasy style game. Perhaps 2d10 instead of 1d20 would 'curve' the line a bit?) Psychic's Handbook style 'psionics' appeals to me a lot more than WotC Psionics, that's for sure. I think this would be an impossible sell, 'though. Psionics are pretty darn popular as is, for a niche product. I do really have to get my hands on Elements of Magic, Revised. I've heard a lot of good stuff about it. Hell yes. The character already has to blow a precious feat and a crapload of money on the process, the exp thing is just injury on top of insult. Based on your list, I suggest that you might also want to do something about Metamagic Feats. They seem like the sort of thing that don't go as well with the view of the game you are promoting. [/QUOTE]
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