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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What Changes Do You Hope They Make To The 4E Rules?
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<blockquote data-quote="jeffh" data-source="post: 3703626" data-attributes="member: 2642"><p>Basically, a lot of streamlining. Follow Einstein's maxim that things should be made as simple as they can, but no simpler.</p><p></p><p>Fewer, more flexible classes (via talent trees or something like it). First on the chopping block should be the Ranger, a conceptual mess in every edition of the game; I've never met two people with the same idea of what the hell the Ranger is supposed to be, and I recently realized I have <em>no </em>such idea at all. Anything salvagable in there is done better by the Scout. Close behind are several other base classes in the current rules that could just be talent trees. You can probably cut the PH ones right down to the core four and still have a way to duplicate every class in the current core rules. Except maybe the monk, but I wouldn't exactly be heartbroken to see that one go away. Then fill back up to six to eight classes using concepts from other books. So something like:</p><p></p><p>Fighter</p><p>Rogue</p><p>Cleric</p><p>Wizard and/or Sorcerer</p><p>Scout</p><p>Warlock</p><p>Duskblade</p><p>Swordsage</p><p></p><p>as your core selection.</p><p></p><p>Make races more interesting. Eliminate the half-breeds and maybe gnomes or halflings (but not both) and add one or two hitherto non-core races that have proven especially interesting. Give them all more interesting abilities rather than the very mundane handful of plusses most of them currently get - perhaps use the Birthright versions as a starting point.</p><p></p><p>I was initially in two minds about the streamlining of skills from SWSE, thinking it might be coming at the expense of useful detail, but it certainly seems to get the job done. Certainly the streamlined DCs and the bonuses coming in 2s, 5s and 10s only are good changes.</p><p></p><p>Definitely streamline the hell out of various combat actions like tripping, grappling and turning undead. There's no reason for any of these to be as complex as they currently are.</p><p></p><p>I don't mind the three defenses of SWSE, either their static nature or their replacing of the AC system, but please do <em>not</em> follow that system's lead in making them virtually uniform across classes. And let armour be DR rather than a Reflex bonus, for heaven's sake, even if it requires rescaling weapon damage in a big way.</p><p></p><p>I approve of most of the changes to combat in SWSE, such as the slightly different action system, the Recover action, and the damage bonuses by level (though maybe making them a function of BAB rather than level would be a good refinement).</p><p></p><p>Bo9S/SWSE per-encounter balancing is definitely a good thing, especially if spellcasters had only a very limited number of spells prepared (perhaps from a larger list known) to greatly simplify preparing them as NPCs. (This might make them harder, or at least no easier, to <em>play </em>as NPCs, though; a problem which deserves some attention).</p><p></p><p>Basically, do much of what was done in SWSE, but keep key D&Disms in some form.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jeffh, post: 3703626, member: 2642"] Basically, a lot of streamlining. Follow Einstein's maxim that things should be made as simple as they can, but no simpler. Fewer, more flexible classes (via talent trees or something like it). First on the chopping block should be the Ranger, a conceptual mess in every edition of the game; I've never met two people with the same idea of what the hell the Ranger is supposed to be, and I recently realized I have [I]no [/I]such idea at all. Anything salvagable in there is done better by the Scout. Close behind are several other base classes in the current rules that could just be talent trees. You can probably cut the PH ones right down to the core four and still have a way to duplicate every class in the current core rules. Except maybe the monk, but I wouldn't exactly be heartbroken to see that one go away. Then fill back up to six to eight classes using concepts from other books. So something like: Fighter Rogue Cleric Wizard and/or Sorcerer Scout Warlock Duskblade Swordsage as your core selection. Make races more interesting. Eliminate the half-breeds and maybe gnomes or halflings (but not both) and add one or two hitherto non-core races that have proven especially interesting. Give them all more interesting abilities rather than the very mundane handful of plusses most of them currently get - perhaps use the Birthright versions as a starting point. I was initially in two minds about the streamlining of skills from SWSE, thinking it might be coming at the expense of useful detail, but it certainly seems to get the job done. Certainly the streamlined DCs and the bonuses coming in 2s, 5s and 10s only are good changes. Definitely streamline the hell out of various combat actions like tripping, grappling and turning undead. There's no reason for any of these to be as complex as they currently are. I don't mind the three defenses of SWSE, either their static nature or their replacing of the AC system, but please do [I]not[/I] follow that system's lead in making them virtually uniform across classes. And let armour be DR rather than a Reflex bonus, for heaven's sake, even if it requires rescaling weapon damage in a big way. I approve of most of the changes to combat in SWSE, such as the slightly different action system, the Recover action, and the damage bonuses by level (though maybe making them a function of BAB rather than level would be a good refinement). Bo9S/SWSE per-encounter balancing is definitely a good thing, especially if spellcasters had only a very limited number of spells prepared (perhaps from a larger list known) to greatly simplify preparing them as NPCs. (This might make them harder, or at least no easier, to [I]play [/I]as NPCs, though; a problem which deserves some attention). Basically, do much of what was done in SWSE, but keep key D&Disms in some form. [/QUOTE]
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