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<blockquote data-quote="Peni Griffin" data-source="post: 3418690" data-attributes="member: 50322">A) You are the one casting the spell, not the guy in the armor.&nbsp; Stand up for yourself.B) Item creation feats wiped this problem anyway.&nbsp; 1st level - scribe scroll.&nbsp; 3rd level - Brew potion. 6th Level - Craft wand.&nbsp; Not to mention the ones you take off your dead foes.&nbsp; CLW potions and scrolls are cheap as dirt, &amp; BTW making a bunch of them at effective caster level 1 is more cost effective than making them at your proper caster level (so my husband who does math in his head and backs it up with spreadsheets I don't understand assures me).&nbsp; There is no reason to memorize cure spells after that first treasure division.It annoys me that clerics get no bonus feat slots to cover this reality.&nbsp; I find I spend all my feats on item creations, though the capacity to work in conjunction with another spell caster with different feats can ease that pain a little.&nbsp; People trust priests.&nbsp; You are the face of the party with the outside world.&nbsp; Priests have interrogation and divination spells.&nbsp; You are a prime investigator.&nbsp; Priests have healing capacity.&nbsp; You are the one everyone will leap to assist and wishes to keep in good with.&nbsp; Priests can call divine wrath down on their enemies - doom, curse, blindness/deafness, monster summonings, death knell, flame strike, summoning, spiritual weapons - and succor their friends.&nbsp; In the end, of course, there is no best class.&nbsp; A good player can have fun and accomplish the campaign goals with an underage commoner if he has to.&nbsp; &nbsp; But when I hear somebody whine that he doesn't want to be the band-aid - well!&nbsp; My expectations for him as a player drop through the floor.So, returning to the original topic, does anyone have anything as useful as a set of objective criteria for measuring the change?&nbsp; 'Cause if not I think we're all blowing smoke.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Peni Griffin, post: 3418690, member: 50322"] A) You are the one casting the spell, not the guy in the armor. Stand up for yourself. B) Item creation feats wiped this problem anyway. 1st level - scribe scroll. 3rd level - Brew potion. 6th Level - Craft wand. Not to mention the ones you take off your dead foes. CLW potions and scrolls are cheap as dirt, & BTW making a bunch of them at effective caster level 1 is more cost effective than making them at your proper caster level (so my husband who does math in his head and backs it up with spreadsheets I don't understand assures me). There is no reason to memorize cure spells after that first treasure division. It annoys me that clerics get no bonus feat slots to cover this reality. I find I spend all my feats on item creations, though the capacity to work in conjunction with another spell caster with different feats can ease that pain a little. People trust priests. You are the face of the party with the outside world. Priests have interrogation and divination spells. You are a prime investigator. Priests have healing capacity. You are the one everyone will leap to assist and wishes to keep in good with. Priests can call divine wrath down on their enemies - doom, curse, blindness/deafness, monster summonings, death knell, flame strike, summoning, spiritual weapons - and succor their friends. In the end, of course, there is no best class. A good player can have fun and accomplish the campaign goals with an underage commoner if he has to. But when I hear somebody whine that he doesn't want to be the band-aid - well! My expectations for him as a player drop through the floor. So, returning to the original topic, does anyone have anything as useful as a set of objective criteria for measuring the change? 'Cause if not I think we're all blowing smoke. [/QUOTE]

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