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What classes do you want added to 5e?
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<blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 6718983" data-attributes="member: 1879"><p>In order for that to be true, 4e Warlord healing would have to include a rider that prevents it from working on dying targets. It does not. A warlords inspiring word works just fine on a character at -20 hp, with two failed death saves, whose is also deaf, blind, 20' away, a different type of life (myconid or xorn) and shares no languages with the Warlord.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You seem very caught up on the idea that tactics must apply meta-game knowledge, and that seems to me to be contrary to your goals. Tactics, to be meaningful, must apply in world logic, otherwise it is the very definition of supernatural. A tactician should be applying his knowledge and perceptions of terrain, the enemies equipment and doctrines, his allies strengths and weaknesses, and the shifting tides of the battlefield and communicate them to his allies, directing them to leverage every advantage they can get. In game it consists of little more than awareness and knowledge checks and the role-playing you poh-poh as wizardry without spells. Systems mastery does come into it, using height advantages, or cover, etc. to employ the physics of the game world to your advantage, but that is not meta-gaming. I think you have the tactics on the character side backwards, knowing Sir Johan to be the strongest guy in the party and therefore having him hold the door closed while you try to brace it makes sense, using some sort of character sheet level ability to allow the mage to borrow Sir Johan str score while holding the door because 'tactical acumen' says you can let any character make one ability check at the highest score in the party 1/encounter does not. </p><p></p><p>A good 3e ability for the sort of character I view as a tactician would be the "Knowledge Devotion" feat from Complete Champion.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry, I don't follow this at all. To clarify, I have as little interest in a debate on the nature of HP as I do in an edition war, but I am not a fan of purely abstract hit points. If HP damage reflects physical or even psychic injury, what could be more on concept then to apply first aid with a healing kit? If you're thinking of it as restoring morale, then to me that seems more like offering a saving throw vs fear, or (to borrow from another system) a command test to stop a unit from being pinned under fire. Since my reading of 5e's hit point system makes them less abstract than those of 4e, I don't think healing, particularly healing capable of rousing someone on the edge of death, should be doable at a distance without supernatural power. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I admit I'm intrigued. While we seem to have differing approaches to the game, I would be very interested to see what you consider to be a good 5e take on the warlord class. </p><p></p><p>Are you familiar with the Hunter class and the Tactics feats chains from Iron Heroes? Do you consider them an acceptable implementation of your ideas?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Andor, post: 6718983, member: 1879"] In order for that to be true, 4e Warlord healing would have to include a rider that prevents it from working on dying targets. It does not. A warlords inspiring word works just fine on a character at -20 hp, with two failed death saves, whose is also deaf, blind, 20' away, a different type of life (myconid or xorn) and shares no languages with the Warlord. You seem very caught up on the idea that tactics must apply meta-game knowledge, and that seems to me to be contrary to your goals. Tactics, to be meaningful, must apply in world logic, otherwise it is the very definition of supernatural. A tactician should be applying his knowledge and perceptions of terrain, the enemies equipment and doctrines, his allies strengths and weaknesses, and the shifting tides of the battlefield and communicate them to his allies, directing them to leverage every advantage they can get. In game it consists of little more than awareness and knowledge checks and the role-playing you poh-poh as wizardry without spells. Systems mastery does come into it, using height advantages, or cover, etc. to employ the physics of the game world to your advantage, but that is not meta-gaming. I think you have the tactics on the character side backwards, knowing Sir Johan to be the strongest guy in the party and therefore having him hold the door closed while you try to brace it makes sense, using some sort of character sheet level ability to allow the mage to borrow Sir Johan str score while holding the door because 'tactical acumen' says you can let any character make one ability check at the highest score in the party 1/encounter does not. A good 3e ability for the sort of character I view as a tactician would be the "Knowledge Devotion" feat from Complete Champion. I'm sorry, I don't follow this at all. To clarify, I have as little interest in a debate on the nature of HP as I do in an edition war, but I am not a fan of purely abstract hit points. If HP damage reflects physical or even psychic injury, what could be more on concept then to apply first aid with a healing kit? If you're thinking of it as restoring morale, then to me that seems more like offering a saving throw vs fear, or (to borrow from another system) a command test to stop a unit from being pinned under fire. Since my reading of 5e's hit point system makes them less abstract than those of 4e, I don't think healing, particularly healing capable of rousing someone on the edge of death, should be doable at a distance without supernatural power. I admit I'm intrigued. While we seem to have differing approaches to the game, I would be very interested to see what you consider to be a good 5e take on the warlord class. Are you familiar with the Hunter class and the Tactics feats chains from Iron Heroes? Do you consider them an acceptable implementation of your ideas? [/QUOTE]
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