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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6720200" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Well, at least within the fluff of 4e, the Avenger was typically cast as being the "inquisitor," "deity's secret police," or "Internal Affairs agent" archetype. That is, Avengers were relatively rare, and tended not to interact directly with the faithful very much. A simple ordained priest (a Theme in 4e) is one who can officiate the religion and carry out the sacrements, and a Cleric exhorts allies of the faithful more than "ministering" per se. The Avenger, on the other hand, likely does the "dirty work" of the church, or alternatively cleans up the messes caused by heretical or disobedient Invested characters. If a Paladin of the Raven Queen started raising the dead for power, or if a Cleric of Ioun engaged in a program of disinformation or destroying libraries to keep knowledge "rare" and "valuable," the goddesses in question cannot do anything directly. The gift of power cannot simply be taken back once given, and the deities are unable to directly affect the mortal realm most of the time due to the Primal Spirits kicking them out. Individual heretics are too small a thing for a deity or even their major servants (Exarchs) to attend to, but someone is needed to deal with the rare times that an Invested character is no longer upholding the faith. So that necromancer-Paladin, and that Braniac-style Cleric, are gonna get a cordial visit from a squad of Avengers.Alternatively, if you prefer, you can think of people like Daud and Corvo from Dishonored. Naturally possessed of impeccable skill and blessed (cursed?) by a godlike being with supernatural abilities that include teleportation, rapid movement ("slow time"), and mental manipulation/"possession."As for your question,  @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=92511" target="_blank">steeldragons</a>...it's just the way the original class worked. Since it seems like such a minimally-invasive detail to address, I feel it's reasonable to ask for something like it--even if it's changed in form. We already have classes that manipulate the damage dice of weapons (Monk), and classes that can manipulate attack and damage stats (Shillelagh, certain Warlock invocations, the upcoming Greenflame Blade), so it seems a small and reasonable extension of the currently-available tools. If there are concerns about balance, it could be limited in several ways--tying it to specific subclasses, for example, or making it a magical effect incompatible with other classes. E.g. something that would effectively be a "cantrip," but which is made a class or subclass feature to dodge stuff like Magical Secrets, and whose structure precludes combining it with the Extra Attack feature so you don't get weird interactions with the Fighter class (for instance).May I ask--also, hoping it does not touch a nerve--why this is a problem? Frankly, I'm getting an impression of inherent opposition to even minor mechanical similarities to a 4e class, when someone mentions they'd like to see it. I'm not upset by that impression, but it seems a little odd--perhaps it is also a wrong impression, I'd say it's even likely. So, in a spirit of recognizing that I could be wrong on that, but wanting to respond to the idea even if you don't hold it yourself:Yes, 5e is a new edition, we should try to be open-minded about new ways to do old things. However, being open to new ways precludes neither desiring something close (but not identical, of course) to the old ways, nor examining those old ways to see how they can be made appropriate to the new. If there's anything great about 5e--and I'm sure we agree there's plenty, even if we disagree about what and how much--it's that it specifically does that: being open to new ways of doing things, while listening intently to the old ways, and working hard to find links between the two.</blockquote>

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