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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4041642" data-attributes="member: 40961">A controller does a lot of things.A controller uses area of effect attacks.A controller uses ranged attacks.A controller hampers his foes.A controller boosts his allies in certain ways.A controller reshapes the battlefield to help his side prevail.Now, lets think about martial characters, and lets NOT count "ki" using characters who create magical effects that we've just renamed ki abilities.Can a martial character use an area of effect attack?  Possibly, but not too many of them.  I suppose a character could throw a spear as a line effect, limited of course by how many spears you have.  Or a martial character could move and strike multiple enemies, which sort of approximates an area of effect.Can a martial character use ranged attacks?  Sure.  But... can a martial character use ranged area of effect attacks?  That's more questionable.  I could think up one or two (the aforementioned spear throw), but the list of options is heavily limited because we're constrained here by believability.Can a martial character hamper his foes?  Yeah.  But, can he do it at range?  Not so well.  And the list of ways in which he can hamper his foes is relatively short compared to a magic wielding character.  And beyond that, can he hamper his foes, at range, and in an area of effect?  Woah.  Probably not.Can a martial character boost his allies in the way that a controller might?  We know a martial character can boost his allies like a leader, because we have the Warlord.  But how does a controller boost his allies?  By granting his allies abilities which essentially modify how they interact with the battlefield.  Casting "fly" on your allies would fall into this category, because it is essentially a "change the battlefield" type ability- it negates elevation as a concern for the PCs.  It is unlikely that a martial character could achieve much in this category.And finally, can a martial character reshape the battlefield?  Well, I suppose he can kick down a door.  But he certainly can't conjure pools of acid or walls of icicles.  He's going to be pretty limited here.That's the problem, overall.  A martial character might sort of approximate a controller with an ability or two, but he's going to be never achieve the breadth and scope of a character with some sort of magical power.Now, a hybrid martial/something character might make a good hybrid defender/controller.  The hexblade might provide something of a model- it could use magical effects to curse and debuff its enemies (at range, perhaps even as an area of effect).  It could have an "aura of unluck" effect which creates an area of effect debuff around it.  It could have a spectral companion that debuffs those near it, and which can rove around the battlefield.  It could have a couple spells to boost itself, or its allies, in controller-ish ways.  It could have martial abilities that focus on controller type powers to the best of its ability to do so, and then it could fill out all the rest of its abilities with martial powers that more plausibly fit what a person using their own prowess with a blade might accomplish- that is, Defender type powers.Now, this analysis all changes if you decide that "ki" powers count as martial.  In that case, you might as well let the character throw fireballs of ki energy and so forth.  But personally, while I'm cool with ki being in the game, I don't really think its martial.</blockquote>

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