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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 4045891" data-attributes="member: 32536">I thought that you got responses like 1) Fear effects, tripping, trampling, stunning, knocking down, etc were hindering effects 2) It is easy for a Martial character to attack multiple targets 3) range is not significant for all controllers, just as range is not significant for all strikers. Considering that you didn't even reply to a lot of my points from the last post, you are making it look like you are trying to pretend that a lot of ideas for martial controllers in this thread do not exist. You are arguing against a single idea for a Martial Controller that you came up with yourself, not against anyone else's ideas.Why? Seriously, I don't see your logic here. It is much akin to saying "it is logical that wizards will only be able to target single enemies at first, and will only learn how to use wide-area AoE spells at high level, thus Wizards can't be good Controllers". If a class is designed to disarm foes, it will be able to do so at any level, not just high levels, since that is the very point of the class. Of course, the lightning-disarmer is not something I have actually seen put forward as a Martial Controller, so I will again refer you to my previous paragraph. You simply are not arguing against anything that has actually been put forward in this thread.Well, I won't defend the storm of arrows thing any further than I already have above. It is not my idea, so I won't bother. I never really understood the Controller Archer concept myself.I wouldn't take that bet. I am certain myself that a Fighter may have one or two powers that let him knock back a foe, since it does have a purpose as you pointed out. However, there is pretty large leap from knocking back a single foe to knocking back every foe. Even ignoring the fact that it is a nonsensical power, which is really hurting my ability to deal with it logically (Are you trying to push foes back or keep them where they are so you get weapon damage? It combines opposing ideas and forces, and I won't presume to understand the Will Defense usage), it simply overrides any ability the Fighter may have in place that lets him protect allies. Everyone around the Fighter is attacked, and knocked back, even towards allies. A Fighter (or rather, his allied Controllers and Strikers) should be using knockback to limit the number of foes attacking anyone but the Fighter, not work to keep the Defender safe, like your power does.Argh, I don't want to debate that ridiculous power any more. I want to talk about Martial Controllers themselves. However, since you don't seem inclined to actually discuss the ideas I have put forward, and keep trying to redefine what I am arguing for rather than actually respond to my ideas, I don't imagine that this discussion is going to go anywhere.</blockquote>

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