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<blockquote data-quote="jdrakeh" data-source="post: 3968468" data-attributes="member: 13892">Well, in fairness, this is only an issue if the campaign is built largely (or purely) around combat. The Rogue that I mentioned earlier was of great use whenever the party needed to enter negotiations with NPCs. And, yes, he was pretty horrible in combat -- but so was Cugel (the fictional character that I modeled my Rogue on). True to Cugel, in character, I often bragged about how great I was with my rapier (I had the bluff and intimidate skill ranks to make it seem legit) but then would conveniently find myself away from battles (not just with undead, but most battles period) much to the chagrin of my companions. Said companions would typically be pretty upset about that until they realized that they needed somebody to lie their way into someplace they shouldn't be, pick somebody's pockets, or perform any other number of larcenous acts with competence. No other party member could even begin to approach my chraracter's level of competence in these areas, and I can't count how many times I saved their proverbial bacon.Outside of combat. This is where the 3x Rogue really shines.I think 4e needs to retain this, while shoring up the combat aspects.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jdrakeh, post: 3968468, member: 13892"] Well, in fairness, this is only an issue if the campaign is built largely (or purely) around combat. The Rogue that I mentioned earlier was of great use whenever the party needed to enter negotiations with NPCs. And, yes, he was pretty horrible in combat -- but so was Cugel (the fictional character that I modeled my Rogue on). True to Cugel, in character, I often bragged about how great I was with my rapier (I had the bluff and intimidate skill ranks to make it seem legit) but then would conveniently find myself away from battles (not just with undead, but most battles [i]period[/i]) much to the chagrin of my companions. Said companions would typically be pretty upset about that [i]until[/i] they realized that they needed somebody to lie their way into someplace they shouldn't be, pick somebody's pockets, or perform any other number of larcenous acts with competence. No other party member could even [i]begin[/i] to approach my chraracter's level of competence in these areas, and I can't count how many times I saved their proverbial bacon. Outside of combat. This is where the 3x Rogue really shines. I think 4e needs to retain this, while shoring up the combat aspects. [/QUOTE]

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