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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 3968478" data-attributes="member: 2067">Ah.In part. I agree these were things that would kill the buzz. That is to be avoided.It's not about not having drawbacks. It's about having interesting drawbacks that are still fun to play. The problem with the cleric spending his actions buffing his teammates was that it isn't fun to just give people bonuses (most of the time). This is a psychological thing. It's not active, it doesn't change the world, it just helps others to change it, it's passive. The problem with the rogue sneak attacking undead is the whole "my abilities are entirely dependent on the DM's whim" problem. The issue with the wizard running out of spells is similar -- depending on the DM's adventure, this becomes a weakness. The fighter's issue is pretty endemic, related to the narrow focus of the class. It's not fun to be able to do just one thing. This isn't about not having drawbacks. It's about making sure that the drawbacks are still fun to play. Active drawbacks, drawbacks that are about your choice and not the DM's, drawbacks that aren't just mistakes in design. Wizards still have the lowest hit points. That's a drawback. Fighters still can't dish out constant piles of damage. That's a drawback. Rogues still are paper tigers. That's a drawback. Clerics are still probably "second fiddle everythings." That's a drawback. Well, yeah, I do think that's true about 4th ed classes that we've seen hints of, but I think that's because 4e is intensely focused around combat. I bet combat will kill social interaction and take it's stuff <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> (which means that even social encounters will run under combat mechanics). But I also think that the 4 big pillars of an adventuring party should be able to be filled by anyone. I shouldn't need to make friends with someone who enjoys  being a support character in order to get someone to play a cleric. Any of my existing friends should be able to fill that role. It's not about being fun, it's about being more fun for the effort put in. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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