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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 3969293" data-attributes="member: 22779">*Ding!* Shilsen is wise.The arguement is not that the core classes were never fun.  That's a gross misrepresentation of the point.  The point was always that certain classes, specifically the four you point to, have fundamental flaws in 3e that can be fixed.Rogue is a perfect example.  Why should I, as DM, refrain from using large swaths of common monsters (undead and constructs) just because the rogue will be sidelined in EVERY encounter?Why not change the rogue so that he is no longer sidelined?  Doesn't that make a whole lot more sense?  One of the most archtypal dungeons - a tomb raid - makes the rogue player cry because he gets to sit out every fight.  And, yes, I do mean sit out because "Aid Another" is not fun.  It's boring.  If it was one fight, or something that happened once in a very long while, that's fine.  There's nothing wrong with having the occasional encounter that plays to the strengths of another character.  But, we're talking four, five different monster types.  A significant portion of the Monster Manual specifically nerfs the rogue.  That's uncool.Or, move over to the Vancian Magic setup and the 15 minute adventuring day.  While it may not occur in your campaign, there is more than enough evidence that it does happen in many campaigns.  So, why not fix it?  Vancian magic was originally intended as a balancing mechanic for casters.  It failed miserably.  At low levels, the caster was baggage and at high levels, king.  Sweet spots exist for a reason.  We cannot extend the sweet spot using existing mechanics.  It just doesn't work.  Vancian casting means that you will have more than enough spells eventually that magic is essentially at will anyway.  So, let's start from a different balancing point.  We'll make the essentials, the bread and butter stuff at will or per encounter.  So, now the low level wizard doesn't act like a peasant with a crossbow for the first three or four levels.  Then, we'll take the funky stuff, the stuff that can really play havoc with a campaign, and make it ritual - per day.  Poof, now you don't have wizards completely dominating the game.  Seems like a pretty good fix to me.And, if you think that neither of these issues, the rogue or the wizard occured to people before the announcement of 4e, I suggest you start sifting through the general forum for a while and see what's there.  Because you will see both these issues time and again.</blockquote>

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