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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 9611951" data-attributes="member: 1465">I really don't like the idea of having to pay for training and level up. I can't imagine a player not choosing to level up, so the training cost becomes a tax, it doesn't make treasure simply worthwhile but rather necessary, and if it's necessary then as a DM I have to give out treasure just so that I can then take it away. Or am I really supposed to sometimes tell the players &quot;sorry you don't have enough money to level up&quot;? Isn't that what XP are supposed to mean? Unless you play with some old editions idea that GP = XP, then introducing a second bookkeeping currency for levelling up doesn't add anything to the game that I find interesting.On the basis that for me &quot;worthwhile&quot; means to create options for the players to make meaningful choices, I think in theory one of them is already there: equipment. Admittedly, this is very loose in 5e, because on one hand the edition doesn't want to force all gaming groups to have a magic items market (unlike 3e), but on the other hand treasure typically increases by level and at some point non-magic equipment prices become irrelevant compared to treasure (unless someone decides not to increase treasure, of course).So we need to look at non-equipment options for exchanging treasure into benefits. If we're talking about adding more rules or at least some sketchy guidelines, one possibility to explore is social influence. I am not talking about vague benefits but trying to come up with actual clear consequences of spending treasure. For instance, there could be price guidelines depending on various factors for gaining advantage on a persuasion check, or to change an NPC attitude one step up the friendly scale, or to cause an NPC to give up a fight or even switch side! Factors that affect the price could be NPC level, their own &quot;lifestyle expenses&quot; score, and of course story-based motivations and attitudes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 9611951, member: 1465"] I really don't like the idea of having to pay for training and level up. I can't imagine a player [I]not choosing to level up[/I], so the training cost becomes a tax, it doesn't make treasure simply worthwhile but rather [I]necessary[/I], and if it's necessary then as a DM I [I]have to [/I]give out treasure just so that I can then take it away. Or am I really supposed to sometimes tell the players "sorry you don't have enough money to level up"? Isn't that what XP are supposed to mean? Unless you play with some old editions idea that GP = XP, then introducing a second bookkeeping currency for levelling up doesn't add anything to the game that I find interesting. On the basis that for me "worthwhile" means to create [I]options[/I] for the players to make meaningful choices, I think in theory one of them is already there: equipment. Admittedly, this is very loose in 5e, because on one hand the edition doesn't want to force all gaming groups to have a magic items market (unlike 3e), but on the other hand treasure typically increases by level and at some point non-magic equipment prices become irrelevant compared to treasure (unless someone decides [I]not[/I] to increase treasure, of course). So we need to look at non-equipment options for exchanging treasure into benefits. If we're talking about adding more rules or at least some sketchy guidelines, one possibility to explore is [B]social influence[/B]. I am not talking about vague benefits but trying to come up with actual clear consequences of spending treasure. For instance, there could be price guidelines depending on various factors for gaining advantage on a persuasion check, or to change an NPC attitude one step up the friendly scale, or to cause an NPC to give up a fight or even switch side! Factors that affect the price could be NPC level, their own "lifestyle expenses" score, and of course story-based motivations and attitudes. [/QUOTE]

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