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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8868701" data-attributes="member: 82106">OK, but let me observe: I would consider my own game to be pretty much intended to operate in the 'story game' space, the agenda is weaving a tale of heroes arising and becoming immortal legends/myths. All of the elements, I mean all as in virtually exactly as you describe them, are present, except you label this 'trad'.So, I think you have perhaps missed something key here. IMHO that is where the driving impetus of story comes from. The story, as various story game exponents have long opined, is about the PCs and is thus primarily the domain of the players, not so much of the GM. So in HoML the action is determined by the players choosing quests (they can just pretty much make them up, though the need for fictional coherence will impose certain limits on theme and content). The GM frames scenes, and thus has some significant say in the specifics of challenges, but then the players decide what the intent of the component actions is, and have some tools like fate and practices, to shape how they deploy themselves and what the results will be. In other words, I think its more the things where the players say &quot;and we're attempting to achieve X, followed by the GM's more reactive &quot;and you will get that if you can pass an A check.&quot; I guess my point is, trad may also use some of the same stuff, potentially, but full bore story game has an additional toolkit and process of play architecture that makes it do what it does. And what it does is basically say &quot;well, you wanted to do X, here you go! Oh, here's a twist!&quot; I mean, HoML has a specific theme, like all of these kinds of game. Trad games, OSR games, etc. all IMHO have equally specific themes and genre conventions.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8868701, member: 82106"] OK, but let me observe: I would consider my own game to be pretty much intended to operate in the 'story game' space, the agenda is weaving a tale of heroes arising and becoming immortal legends/myths. All of the elements, I mean all as in virtually exactly as you describe them, are present, except you label this 'trad'. So, I think you have perhaps missed something key here. IMHO that is where the driving impetus of story comes from. The story, as various story game exponents have long opined, is about the PCs and is thus primarily the domain of the players, not so much of the GM. So in HoML the action is determined by the players choosing quests (they can just pretty much make them up, though the need for fictional coherence will impose certain limits on theme and content). The GM frames scenes, and thus has some significant say in the specifics of challenges, but then the players decide what the intent of the component actions is, and have some tools like fate and practices, to shape how they deploy themselves and what the results will be. In other words, I think its more the things where the players say "and we're attempting to achieve X, followed by the GM's more reactive "and you will get that if you can pass an A check." I guess my point is, trad may also use some of the same stuff, potentially, but full bore story game has an additional toolkit and process of play architecture that makes it do what it does. And what it does is basically say "well, you wanted to do X, here you go! Oh, here's a twist!" I mean, HoML has a specific theme, like all of these kinds of game. Trad games, OSR games, etc. all IMHO have equally specific themes and genre conventions. [/QUOTE]

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