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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geocorona" data-source="post: 536231" data-attributes="member: 8323">A CR of 8 means 4 8th-level characters should be challenged by one of these creatures, but would probably defeat it without any deaths to the party. It has a wide-shape face/reach (10x10/5) so all characters can easily flank it. Even though it has extra character levels, it's still only one creature and can execute only so many attacks per round--those character levels can't act as independent creatures. With the mage armor and the wand of Fireballs, you might be looking at a 9 or 10, but not if the characters had similar toys. Playtesting is the only way to tell for sure.Edit: I reran the CR calc giving the monster 2 extra "specials" to double-weight those two magic items, and it came up as a 9. I use a different formula for calculating CR than the Dragon version. That version usually produces  inflated CRs above CR 5.</blockquote>