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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7958783" data-attributes="member: 18">Literally not a single one of these needed to be a core class when Subclasses exist (if they didn't, it'd be a different discussion).Some of them should be added to 5E as subclasses though.It's a very different situation from 4E, where there are classes so fundamentally different that adding them as subclasses doesn't work (even when they've done it, as with Avenger, what they got&nbsp; is cool, but not at all the same thing).This doesn't make a lot of sense. A staple role in fantasy fiction, sure, but pre-industrial history? Absolutely not. D&amp;D does not need classes for every role in pre-industrial history. It is not a historic game, nor even close to one.Further, re: fantasy fiction, only the sort of people who actually go on adventures, and become heroes, need to be possible to replicate as a player character (the rest can be NPCs). This means that the archivist is a poor fit, because such characters are extremely rare in fantasy fiction as actually going on adventures (rather than hanging out in towers giving out quests). I can't even think of a single one who matches that and does divine magic from fantasy fiction (arcane, sure, but that's well-covered by Wizard, even if you might want a new subclass).EDIT - Looking at Archivist specifically, even if you wanted that kind of thing in 5E, you could probably do it as a Wizard with an alternate spell list and the usual feature replacements of a Wizard subclass. It wouldn't break the game - if anything it might be a bit weaker than some subclasses.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 7958783, member: 18"] Literally not a single one of these needed to be a core class when Subclasses exist (if they didn't, it'd be a different discussion). Some of them should be added to 5E as subclasses though. It's a very different situation from 4E, where there are classes so fundamentally different that adding them as subclasses doesn't work (even when they've done it, as with Avenger, what they got is cool, but not at all the same thing). This doesn't make a lot of sense. A staple role in fantasy fiction, sure, but pre-industrial history? Absolutely not. D&D does not need classes for every role in pre-industrial history. It is not a historic game, nor even close to one. Further, re: fantasy fiction, only the sort of people who actually go on adventures, and become heroes, need to be possible to replicate as a player character (the rest can be NPCs). This means that the archivist is a poor fit, because such characters are extremely rare in fantasy fiction as actually going on adventures (rather than hanging out in towers giving out quests). I can't even think of a single one who matches that and does divine magic from fantasy fiction (arcane, sure, but that's well-covered by Wizard, even if you might want a new subclass). EDIT - Looking at Archivist specifically, even if you wanted that kind of thing in 5E, you could probably do it as a Wizard with an alternate spell list and the usual feature replacements of a Wizard subclass. It wouldn't break the game - if anything it might be a bit weaker than some subclasses. [/QUOTE]

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