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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 3980314" data-attributes="member: 1757">You make some excellent points (specifically #1 and #3), and I agree with most of them! However...I'm going to go out on a limb and venture that not all of these things are particularly applicable to a PnP RPG.Azeroth's not bad, but D&D has already done much, much better for three simple reasons:1) It can have any setting you like, whether right out of a book or film, published by some other dude, or ripped straight from your brain;2) You can mix, match, and combine elements from anything on the go; and3) Certain given universes (Planescape, FR, etc.) have *far* more depth than Azeroth.IMO, Azeroth's appeal stems strongly from its visual elements. Those aren't replicable in a PnP game setting. On the flip side, FR has fictional tavern menus, tiny bits of lore strewn in dozens of sourcebooks, random little historical details, and thousands of other bits that make the world *seem* infinite, even if it's only as big as the players' own exploration of it. That's the greatness of something contained in dozens of books. Please note. I'm not slamming on video games or computer games for being "shallow," or arguing that the (MMO)CRPG experience is somehow limiting. I am saying that if you're going to pick a lesson that D&D needs to learn from WoW, it isn't campaign setting development. I *always* thought that D&D was lucky not to have an intrusive default setting, and the existence of countless Elric-, Aragorn-, and Merlin-clones back in the game's heyday seems to support that point. If anything, I'd rather the game provided more examples from outside its own IP for inspiration to DMs and players.This is an interesting one. I've never actually felt that D&D was all that complicated, but then I don't play to character-optimize. Whenever I have played ANY CRPG and pushed to optimize my character (and I usually do, because I'm playing with the computer as GM and it ain't going to be as forgiving) I find it pretty grueling. This problem is heightened by the existence ofNo. Oh god please no. This is, again, one of D&D's strengths: The fact that the storyteller is also the brain behind all of your enemies, and the fact that your fellow players are there to be your allies. In a game that features as much in-character roleplaying as D&D does (and I know I'll be leaped on as some kind of amateur-drama freak, but the fact is that I've seen far more serious characterization and immersive dialogue in tabletop games than in WoW, at least, where most conversations seem to be about tactics), PvP IMO detracts from the experience unless it's something that comes up organically. People can do this in D&D, easily. In fact, you can do anything you like in D&D, really. Want to spend five weeks touring the brothels of the city of Rel Astra? Go to it.  Hankering for the tinker gnomes to rig you up an improvised harness so you can go hang-gliding off the Spine of the World? Sure. Feel like dressing up in drag and picking up drunken orc bandits in the taverns of the Pomarj? All you, baby. As to why rules for this stuff should exist: Well, people need "rules" for this in MMOs because otherwise, the AI couldn't support it. The designers' philosophy for 4e appears to be (IMO, wisely) that DM handwaving is exactly how these sorts of things should be adjudicated. Honestly, most adventurers shouldn't be making their own gear anyway; the great dwarven smiths of Rockhome or the mighty high elf craftsmen of Eriador should be doing that work.Your last point is interesting; I don't quite get it. Is the issue that the role of magic items in determining sheer mechanical stats is being de-emphasized in 4e? Or that the DM doesn't get enough NPCs to say "Egad! You've found the Fanged Shield of Shyk Korort? Methought that was lost in the bowels of the lair of the Great Wyrm Irylkargathra"?</blockquote>

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