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<blockquote data-quote="PeterWeller" data-source="post: 3984849" data-attributes="member: 55795">It's not carousing until a table gets turned over and some teeth get knocked about.In WoW, guilds have almost no meaning beyond tabards and organizing raids.&nbsp; One of the two is meaningless, and the other can be done through other game implements.Players are neither villains nor heroes in WoW.&nbsp; Anyway, you can't convince a Horde character to join the Alliance or vice versa.&nbsp; You can't even talk to each other.It's cool, but it isn't crafting a unique item or spell.Have no real lasting effect on the game. Again, don't mean a thing in WoW.Auction housing isn't being a merchant.&nbsp; Where are your wagons, ships and warehouses?Leading a guild isn't being a ruler or a lord.&nbsp; It's dealing with who gets which purples on raids.Opening the gates is the one lasting thing anyone could do so far, but the number necessary mean that it's you and a couple score other people doing it.In WoW, the individual players are actually very unimportant.&nbsp; It's really a bad game if you want to compare the avenues available to players in an MMO versus a PnP RPG.&nbsp; The only MMO that I know of that even comes close to offering the avenues of playstyle that D&amp;D and other PnP games offer is EVE online.&nbsp; That game takes a very different approach than WoW, however; it places the onus for almost all in game action on the players.&nbsp; Guilds in EVE aren't just groups of players who raid together, they are actual political and economic entities controlling territory and trade routes, allying, warring, and conspiring with and against each other for control of the world and its economy.&nbsp; Of course, if you want to do any of that, you essentially need to join one of the guilds already in play or convince enough people to jump ship to your own guild, so there's no room for lone wolves and PvE only players to effect the world in a meaningful way.&nbsp; You also can't actually leave your pod and walk around the space stations or explore the planets' surfaces, so there's that holding it back as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="PeterWeller, post: 3984849, member: 55795"] It's not carousing until a table gets turned over and some teeth get knocked about. In WoW, guilds have almost no meaning beyond tabards and organizing raids. One of the two is meaningless, and the other can be done through other game implements. Players are neither villains nor heroes in WoW. Anyway, you can't convince a Horde character to join the Alliance or vice versa. You can't even talk to each other. It's cool, but it isn't crafting a unique item or spell. Have no real lasting effect on the game. Again, don't mean a thing in WoW. Auction housing isn't being a merchant. Where are your wagons, ships and warehouses? Leading a guild isn't being a ruler or a lord. It's dealing with who gets which purples on raids. Opening the gates is the one lasting thing anyone could do so far, but the number necessary mean that it's you and a couple score other people doing it. In WoW, the individual players are actually very unimportant. It's really a bad game if you want to compare the avenues available to players in an MMO versus a PnP RPG. The only MMO that I know of that even comes close to offering the avenues of playstyle that D&D and other PnP games offer is EVE online. That game takes a very different approach than WoW, however; it places the onus for almost all in game action on the players. Guilds in EVE aren't just groups of players who raid together, they are actual political and economic entities controlling territory and trade routes, allying, warring, and conspiring with and against each other for control of the world and its economy. Of course, if you want to do any of that, you essentially need to join one of the guilds already in play or convince enough people to jump ship to your own guild, so there's no room for lone wolves and PvE only players to effect the world in a meaningful way. You also can't actually leave your pod and walk around the space stations or explore the planets' surfaces, so there's that holding it back as well. [/QUOTE]

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