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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6309008" data-attributes="member: 2525">No, you don't get to strawman me.&nbsp; I never said the rules are never the problem.&nbsp; I said for the thing you're describing, it sounds like the players and DM have a problem they need to work out, regardless of rules.And you conveniently opted to not quote that section, which makes it harder for others to see that's what I said.&nbsp; There is no contradiction there.&nbsp; If you have a player or players who &quot;turn-off&quot; whenever the spotlight is not on them, that is a problem REGARDLESS of the rules.&nbsp; Because as I described, given the variable of luck, that's going to happen even in the most balanced of games.&nbsp; Which means it's not the rules that's at issue with that problem. Not that the rules can never be an issue with a problem, just for the problem you're describing it doesn't make sense to be pointing at the rules as the issue.Yeah, again, I never said the rules are not the problem.&nbsp; And you claiming it a second time makes me feel like you're doing this in bad faith.&nbsp; You know what I said.More importantly, I was moving on to a different topic of your personal hierarchy of things that you like from an RPG.&nbsp; If balance is near the top of your list, then probably 4e is more for you than 5e, because it does balance better.&nbsp; You can like balance for reasons other than the issue you outlined concerning players &quot;tuning-out&quot; when the spotlight is not on them.&nbsp; Indeed, I think&nbsp;&nbsp; the reasons to prioritize balance don't have anything to do with that issue.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 6309008, member: 2525"] No, you don't get to strawman me. I never said the rules are never the problem. I said for the thing you're describing, it sounds like the players and DM have a problem they need to work out, regardless of rules. And you conveniently opted to not quote that section, which makes it harder for others to see that's what I said. There is no contradiction there. If you have a player or players who "turn-off" whenever the spotlight is not on them, that is a problem REGARDLESS of the rules. Because as I described, given the variable of luck, that's going to happen even in the most balanced of games. Which means it's not the rules that's at issue with that problem. Not that the rules can never be an issue with a problem, just for the problem you're describing it doesn't make sense to be pointing at the rules as the issue. Yeah, again, I never said the rules are not the problem. And you claiming it a second time makes me feel like you're doing this in bad faith. You know what I said. More importantly, I was moving on to a different topic of your personal hierarchy of things that you like from an RPG. If balance is near the top of your list, then probably 4e is more for you than 5e, because it does balance better. You can like balance for reasons other than the issue you outlined concerning players "tuning-out" when the spotlight is not on them. Indeed, I think the reasons to prioritize balance don't have anything to do with that issue. [/QUOTE]

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