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What did we loose updateing a game from 2e to 4e
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<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 5662826" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>What makes the Elven Two-Weapon Fighting Chef kit non-core?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you allowed anything in 2e, did you allow half-giants and thri-kreen away from Athas? (You could, depending on how you made your setting, but I don't think it's a good idea.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think those are inherent bonuses. If it's coming from an item, it's not inherent to the PC. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I could. Especially if I focus on charm and illusion effects. I really could. All I need to do is strum a guitar while casting spells. Said guitar having an orb in it or something <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And my problem were the swords being <em>required</em>. (Come to think about it, it doesn't do much for a 2e wizard unless they multiclassed/dual-classed.) That's why I think said adventure had some problems.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, most of those races are not core. Just because warforged are in the Monster Manual does not make them a core PC race. Vampires are in Heroes of Shadow ... that is <em>not core</em>. Neither were arctic dwarves, star elves and bariaur in 2e.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That was kind of the problem. "I hit to attack. I hit to attack. I hit to attack. I knock over a bench. I hit to attack..." In 3.x: "I Power Attack for 3. I Power Attack for 5. I Power Attack for 3..."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The wizard could still do many different fights (in 4e, you can switch your dailies up some) and if you have some nasty (save ends) spells you can lock an opponent down for the entire combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Are you talking about a duel? Or as part of a party-based combat system? I think in a duel, the wizard could (especially if they're an orb wizard) reliably freeze the fighter in place. With Sleep, even!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can still do that. His 4e version could brush them off (literally, if he has any pushing effects), letting him demonstrate his power both in terms of offense and defense.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Adventuring is certainly part of the social contract, but I think being required to find five specific swords is bad writing. If the PCs find another way of doing things, why should they be punished for choosing the "wrong" way?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That game continues. The campaign continues. The adventure doesn't. That's bad writing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've actually read two of his books. The combat scenes were surprisingly well-written. It's too bad he's not part of a party <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Well, not most of the time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm glad you don't screw yourself over making an item for the fighter. I'm not sacking my Constitution to make a fighter a vorpal sword, no matter <em>how</em> much he begs.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I should hope what knocked down the fighter 3 surges wasn't boring! (Unless it was just charging orcs.) I would rather go through difficult, nearly-being-killed battles than "creep around the kobolds due to having only 3 hp and no Stealth skill" encounters just because no one could be bothered to play a cleric.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 5662826, member: 1165"] What makes the Elven Two-Weapon Fighting Chef kit non-core? If you allowed anything in 2e, did you allow half-giants and thri-kreen away from Athas? (You could, depending on how you made your setting, but I don't think it's a good idea.) I don't think those are inherent bonuses. If it's coming from an item, it's not inherent to the PC. :) I could. Especially if I focus on charm and illusion effects. I really could. All I need to do is strum a guitar while casting spells. Said guitar having an orb in it or something :) And my problem were the swords being [i]required[/i]. (Come to think about it, it doesn't do much for a 2e wizard unless they multiclassed/dual-classed.) That's why I think said adventure had some problems. No, most of those races are not core. Just because warforged are in the Monster Manual does not make them a core PC race. Vampires are in Heroes of Shadow ... that is [i]not core[/i]. Neither were arctic dwarves, star elves and bariaur in 2e. That was kind of the problem. "I hit to attack. I hit to attack. I hit to attack. I knock over a bench. I hit to attack..." In 3.x: "I Power Attack for 3. I Power Attack for 5. I Power Attack for 3..." The wizard could still do many different fights (in 4e, you can switch your dailies up some) and if you have some nasty (save ends) spells you can lock an opponent down for the entire combat. Are you talking about a duel? Or as part of a party-based combat system? I think in a duel, the wizard could (especially if they're an orb wizard) reliably freeze the fighter in place. With Sleep, even! You can still do that. His 4e version could brush them off (literally, if he has any pushing effects), letting him demonstrate his power both in terms of offense and defense. Adventuring is certainly part of the social contract, but I think being required to find five specific swords is bad writing. If the PCs find another way of doing things, why should they be punished for choosing the "wrong" way? That game continues. The campaign continues. The adventure doesn't. That's bad writing. I've actually read two of his books. The combat scenes were surprisingly well-written. It's too bad he's not part of a party :) Well, not most of the time. I'm glad you don't screw yourself over making an item for the fighter. I'm not sacking my Constitution to make a fighter a vorpal sword, no matter [i]how[/i] much he begs. I should hope what knocked down the fighter 3 surges wasn't boring! (Unless it was just charging orcs.) I would rather go through difficult, nearly-being-killed battles than "creep around the kobolds due to having only 3 hp and no Stealth skill" encounters just because no one could be bothered to play a cleric. [/QUOTE]
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