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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4550061" data-attributes="member: 710">People have differing views on what is a &quot;substantive&quot; change. I think adding a lot of spell-like abilities to spellcasters is a substantive changes. But there could be far more substantive, like moving them to a power point system or using &quot;spell-like slots&quot; for everyone. There is no way to generalize how people feel about the changes - are the substantive and needed? Are the substantive and bad or at least unnecessary? Are they subtle and for the better? Subtle, yet worsening?Personally I say they are not substantive enough to &quot;fix&quot; the problems I experienced. Some of them still go in the right direction or have at least the right goals, (dealing with too many buffs, trying to find ways to balance non-spellcasters and spellcasters, streamlining combat maneuvers), and some are just superflous or making things worse (Barbarian Rage Points - but apparently no longer considered for the final, IIRC; or the Paladins Lay on Hand ability changes). But others will see things differently. I think people that don't like the changes are either like me and saying they don't change enough substantive to make the game work better overall (and I suppose that are people that are - at least no longer - happy with 3E), or they don't like the changes because they change too much and make things worse (and are probably happy with 3E). Seems obvious, right? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 4550061, member: 710"] People have differing views on what is a "substantive" change. I think adding a lot of spell-like abilities to spellcasters is a substantive changes. But there could be far more substantive, like moving them to a power point system or using "spell-like slots" for everyone. There is no way to generalize how people feel about the changes - are the substantive and needed? Are the substantive and bad or at least unnecessary? Are they subtle and for the better? Subtle, yet worsening? Personally I say they are not substantive enough to "fix" the problems I experienced. Some of them still go in the right direction or have at least the right goals, (dealing with too many buffs, trying to find ways to balance non-spellcasters and spellcasters, streamlining combat maneuvers), and some are just superflous or making things worse (Barbarian Rage Points - but apparently no longer considered for the final, IIRC; or the Paladins Lay on Hand ability changes). But others will see things differently. I think people that don't like the changes are either like me and saying they don't change enough substantive to make the game work better overall (and I suppose that are people that are - at least no longer - happy with 3E), or they don't like the changes because they change too much and make things worse (and are probably happy with 3E). Seems obvious, right? ;) [/QUOTE]

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