Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
What Direction is Pathfinder Headed In?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 4553796" data-attributes="member: 94"><p>As subsystems go, action points are simple enough. </p><p></p><p>Of course, I also think they're properly applied to solve lots of other problems, and they can do this without significant added complexity.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>My answer is obviously yes. But this gets to the heart of what I mean about my assumptions. I start with a couple of very simple assumptions that are nevertheless very polarizing. ("Empower the DM." and "Use action points.") </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have to sort of take that with a grain of salt as any design or redesign entails balancing. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>By which I assume you mean hit points. </p><p></p><p>Certainly, there are ways you can do this. 4e's approach in many cases is to apply all sorts of damage directly to hit points: Poison deals hit point damage, necrotic damage, <em>morale </em> effects can even deal hit point damage (and healing), etc. This is certainly a workable solution but very gamist. And it's unsatisfactory to a lot of people for a lot of reasons.</p><p></p><p>Or you could work the "re-roll" mechanic into hit points: If you're not reduced below 50% of your hit points, then you receive a significant save boost, possibly including an automatic, free re-roll. Or you could charge the player a certain amount of hit points to "buy" the re-roll. Etc.</p><p></p><p>For the most part I am ok with different sub-systems tracking "plot immunity" across a variety of tracks: Hit points, ability score damage, action points, etc.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: I had meant to mention this and forgot. I <em>like </em>the fact that there are effects-- poison, save or die-- that can kill you "suddenly." But that is not to say that the risk should be completely unanticipated. In terms of plot protection, it matters that the players know when they are at significant risk. It helps to build tension; it forces meaningful decisions. </p><p></p><p>In the status quo, the risk is ever-present; a sleep spell can ruin a 1st level party. There is no plot protection. Consequently, it is very hard to <em>build </em>meaningful tension. Slowly whittling away hit points; slowly whittling away spells and resources; and yes, slowly whittling away action points-- all of these give me greater control as a DM over increasing tension. I want all of these knobs and levers, and more. </p><p></p><p>I view hit points as the primary ablative resource of the <em>single encounter</em>. (I don't mind the players healing up after every battle.)</p><p></p><p>I view spells and dailies as the primary ablative resource of the <em>game session</em>.</p><p></p><p>I view action points as the primary ablative resource of the <em>adventure</em>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wulf Ratbane, post: 4553796, member: 94"] As subsystems go, action points are simple enough. Of course, I also think they're properly applied to solve lots of other problems, and they can do this without significant added complexity. My answer is obviously yes. But this gets to the heart of what I mean about my assumptions. I start with a couple of very simple assumptions that are nevertheless very polarizing. ("Empower the DM." and "Use action points.") I have to sort of take that with a grain of salt as any design or redesign entails balancing. By which I assume you mean hit points. Certainly, there are ways you can do this. 4e's approach in many cases is to apply all sorts of damage directly to hit points: Poison deals hit point damage, necrotic damage, [I]morale [/I] effects can even deal hit point damage (and healing), etc. This is certainly a workable solution but very gamist. And it's unsatisfactory to a lot of people for a lot of reasons. Or you could work the "re-roll" mechanic into hit points: If you're not reduced below 50% of your hit points, then you receive a significant save boost, possibly including an automatic, free re-roll. Or you could charge the player a certain amount of hit points to "buy" the re-roll. Etc. For the most part I am ok with different sub-systems tracking "plot immunity" across a variety of tracks: Hit points, ability score damage, action points, etc. EDIT: I had meant to mention this and forgot. I [I]like [/I]the fact that there are effects-- poison, save or die-- that can kill you "suddenly." But that is not to say that the risk should be completely unanticipated. In terms of plot protection, it matters that the players know when they are at significant risk. It helps to build tension; it forces meaningful decisions. In the status quo, the risk is ever-present; a sleep spell can ruin a 1st level party. There is no plot protection. Consequently, it is very hard to [I]build [/I]meaningful tension. Slowly whittling away hit points; slowly whittling away spells and resources; and yes, slowly whittling away action points-- all of these give me greater control as a DM over increasing tension. I want all of these knobs and levers, and more. I view hit points as the primary ablative resource of the [I]single encounter[/I]. (I don't mind the players healing up after every battle.) I view spells and dailies as the primary ablative resource of the [I]game session[/I]. I view action points as the primary ablative resource of the [I]adventure[/I]. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
What Direction is Pathfinder Headed In?
Top