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Message: <blockquote data-quote="invokethehojo" data-source="post: 4930068" data-attributes="member: 62525">I agree with De Ganis, if people discussing thier percieved down sides of 4e isn't your thing then don't post in this thread.  I like 4e, but if I (and every person in here) felt obligated to be polite and explain all the things about 4e they like before discussing things it could improve upon this thread would be 48 pages long and no one would want to read it.As far as class sameness and the wizard problem... that's a toughy.  I liked in old editions how the classes all felt different from each other, but I also see that mechanics that revolve around 1 class only could be a problem.  I liked how wizards have long spell lists, although I always thought that the fun of playing a wizard should be the stragegy of picking the right spell at the right time from your list, instead of being forced to memorize spells at the beginning of the day only to find you didn't memorize the right spell.  It was great to cast shrink on a tree limb that an enemy was standing on firing arrows from so he falls and the fighter can go kill him, rather than casting a level 3 damage spell to kill him yourself.  In 4e wizards don't feel wizardy enough in my opinion, and it does have to do with the damage/minor effect problem.  I don't have much love for rituals as written, I think that they could have designed these so they weren't a seperate mechanic, maybe you have a fly spell (low level just for one move action) and you cast a ritual or spend a daily or something to make it last longer... I'm not sure, but I think that by trying to make all classes use the same power system it made the classes feel less cool.  I don't dislike the at will/encounter/daily system, and I can see whey they balanced things the way they did.  D&D is an ever evolving game, and the last few editions had a lot of game breaking elements, this system was able to defeat that for the most part, and that is great.  I'm not sure if 5e should try to go back to having wizards be like they used to, or if that would only bring us back to the old problesm.  Table top games have thier limits, and players will expoit things.  Maybe customization could replace the old way of thinking, maybe if they eliminated classes all together, so that the average character has some magic and some other stuff and could choose... maybe that would help keep the cool feel of magic while not going back to the old uber wizard problem and there would be no classes to feel the same.  I'm really not sure, just throwing ideas out there.</blockquote>

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