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What direction should 5th edition take?
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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4933004" data-attributes="member: 43019"><p>There are powers that do those things - Cause Fear, Command, Visions of Avarice, Maze of Mirrors, Illusionary Wall, etc. And frankly powers like Mire the Mind and Far Realm Phantasm _do_ trick your enemy if you RP them correctly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm pretty sure Stinking Cloud is actually pretty damn badass, maybe you want a better example?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why is damage lame? It's the core principle of combat. If you don't deal damage, then the combat _doesn't end_ which there are threads everywhere with people complaining about.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I saw it "stun" someone who couldn't get into combat just last week, but I otherwise agree that I'd be fine with it having a real penalty attached, such as inability to shift.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I remember someone playing with two dozen sticky notes around their character for tracking their buffs, which was very useful for when the dispels happened. I remember tracking the entirety of a 12 minute smash and grab through a tower due to a need to track durations as players raced room to room to keep 1r/lvl and 1m/lvl buffs going as much as possible. I remember tracking all 20+ buffs _I_ had cast on people in my party so that I could tell the DM what they lost when he did dispels, or tell them how much Con & Dex they'd gained for the day, etc. I remember tracking the number of hits against my stoneskin that occured from adventure to adventure, and my contingencies, mirror images, and all the rest in 2e. You and I have some very different opinions on what was done in previous editions to what extent.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agree completely. I've posted elsewhere about this, but I strongly wish that beneficial effects were all until end of target's turn or encounter, and detrimental effecs were all until end of target's turn, save, or encounter (since save are at end of turn, them being same is fine) _and_ that a save could end 'end of turn' effects so that save ends was always an upgrade on duration.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes and no. They both create different kinds of bookkeeping... the real question is why you'd need _either_. The system would have less bookkeeping if you didn't get buffed at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="keterys, post: 4933004, member: 43019"] There are powers that do those things - Cause Fear, Command, Visions of Avarice, Maze of Mirrors, Illusionary Wall, etc. And frankly powers like Mire the Mind and Far Realm Phantasm _do_ trick your enemy if you RP them correctly. I'm pretty sure Stinking Cloud is actually pretty damn badass, maybe you want a better example? Why is damage lame? It's the core principle of combat. If you don't deal damage, then the combat _doesn't end_ which there are threads everywhere with people complaining about. I saw it "stun" someone who couldn't get into combat just last week, but I otherwise agree that I'd be fine with it having a real penalty attached, such as inability to shift. I remember someone playing with two dozen sticky notes around their character for tracking their buffs, which was very useful for when the dispels happened. I remember tracking the entirety of a 12 minute smash and grab through a tower due to a need to track durations as players raced room to room to keep 1r/lvl and 1m/lvl buffs going as much as possible. I remember tracking all 20+ buffs _I_ had cast on people in my party so that I could tell the DM what they lost when he did dispels, or tell them how much Con & Dex they'd gained for the day, etc. I remember tracking the number of hits against my stoneskin that occured from adventure to adventure, and my contingencies, mirror images, and all the rest in 2e. You and I have some very different opinions on what was done in previous editions to what extent. Agree completely. I've posted elsewhere about this, but I strongly wish that beneficial effects were all until end of target's turn or encounter, and detrimental effecs were all until end of target's turn, save, or encounter (since save are at end of turn, them being same is fine) _and_ that a save could end 'end of turn' effects so that save ends was always an upgrade on duration. Yes and no. They both create different kinds of bookkeeping... the real question is why you'd need _either_. The system would have less bookkeeping if you didn't get buffed at all. [/QUOTE]
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