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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7496586" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>Your own loop has the player describing an action before the DM calls for the "fortune check." Why then is my assertion that you don't get to ask for a check before I describe an action "weird?"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ability checks and saving throws are different things in D&D 5e. I would say that saving throws are somewhat at odds with 5e's "How to Play" and I surmise included as they are for nostalgic purposes. My position has always been about <em>ability checks</em> though and nothing else <em>in the context of 5e</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My position is based on the game's own description of How to Play, not on some principle I hold. I might take another position in some other game. Which is partly my argument against DMs who run games the same way regardless of game. Different games demand different approaches.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sorry, I will not address or discuss specific examples which only serve to muddle rather than explain in my experience.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't (and can't) care what you roll behind the screen. I won't be aware of it, presumably. Again, my position is don't ask me to make a check for an action I haven't described. It's very simple.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Unreasonable in some game systems perhaps, but not others. And I wouldn't take that position in game systems that described how to play as something other than what D&D 5e does. The player describes what he or she wants to do. THEN the DM calls for a check, sometimes. Not before.</p><p></p><p>I will add that passive checks aren't resolving characters being passive. They are performing a task repeatedly. This is described in the rules under "Passive Checks." The player needs to declare what that task is e.g. "Keeping Watch for hidden dangers while we explore the dungeon." Otherwise, the DM is assuming what the character is doing which is not advisable in my view.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not going to read your essay. Your post was already longer than I really have time to read and respond to. I've already addressed the saving throw issue above. I didn't even bring up railroading, so I'm not sure why this is relevant.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The DM decides when dice are rolled. When the DM makes that decision, I prefer it if the results are not fudged. Unless you're calling into question my preferences, I think this line of discussion is concluded.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7496586, member: 97077"] Your own loop has the player describing an action before the DM calls for the "fortune check." Why then is my assertion that you don't get to ask for a check before I describe an action "weird?" Ability checks and saving throws are different things in D&D 5e. I would say that saving throws are somewhat at odds with 5e's "How to Play" and I surmise included as they are for nostalgic purposes. My position has always been about [I]ability checks[/I] though and nothing else [I]in the context of 5e[/I]. My position is based on the game's own description of How to Play, not on some principle I hold. I might take another position in some other game. Which is partly my argument against DMs who run games the same way regardless of game. Different games demand different approaches. Sorry, I will not address or discuss specific examples which only serve to muddle rather than explain in my experience. I don't (and can't) care what you roll behind the screen. I won't be aware of it, presumably. Again, my position is don't ask me to make a check for an action I haven't described. It's very simple. Unreasonable in some game systems perhaps, but not others. And I wouldn't take that position in game systems that described how to play as something other than what D&D 5e does. The player describes what he or she wants to do. THEN the DM calls for a check, sometimes. Not before. I will add that passive checks aren't resolving characters being passive. They are performing a task repeatedly. This is described in the rules under "Passive Checks." The player needs to declare what that task is e.g. "Keeping Watch for hidden dangers while we explore the dungeon." Otherwise, the DM is assuming what the character is doing which is not advisable in my view. I'm not going to read your essay. Your post was already longer than I really have time to read and respond to. I've already addressed the saving throw issue above. I didn't even bring up railroading, so I'm not sure why this is relevant. The DM decides when dice are rolled. When the DM makes that decision, I prefer it if the results are not fudged. Unless you're calling into question my preferences, I think this line of discussion is concluded. [/QUOTE]
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