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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7497844" data-attributes="member: 6919838">i added an edit to my original response about the error but did not change it so the error can remain clear.As for the "low dc" all i can say is that a low dc on a intenet read post varies from person to person and half-blind to fully sighted - as does typing.However, my reading and typing lacks aside, the point to me still stands.A search check of 2 can be narrated as "a crwoded fridge with things shifting around a lot" or "a tourough search you are certain of." You keep conflating failure and confidence. Have i searched a fridge and though i was out of cheese only later to find it in the cirsper later? Sure. Thats because i did a quick look in the obvious places and then called it done. Likely if my wife had said "no, i know we have cheese, i just bought it yesterday when i got the potatoes and onions." i would have looked more closely and found it. The examples i gave were all failure - but they were failures in which some times the Gm decided to represent the d20 influence into the game as narration and sometimes they did not. That creates a case of some d20 being in-game and some not when in fact the Gm can just as well provide the same kind of "how did it go" along with the attempt. An insight check (successful or not) can be a read that sees only a few tells, mixed signals and nothing direct (low roll) or it can get a clear view with strong and consistent tells (high roll) but only if the Gm decides to provide narration to reflect the roll. Did the mark get irritated and snappy at the line of questioning or did he get irritated and snappy at the tabaxi at the next table being so loud its very difficult to hear? thats a decent pair of GM narrations that can lead the player/character towards confidence or lack of confidence in that insight check.its a Gm choice what narration to apply on the way to success or "failure" and given that "failure" in 5e includes "progress with setback determined by Gm" and not just "no progress" it has never seemed right to me to treat some d20 as "unseen" and others as "seen" in narration. It seems destined to lead to complications that are not beneficial. As an aside, i have seen Gms roll stealth behind the screen for the "you dont know if you were heard" thing too. Those were some of the things that led me down this path.As i said at one point on this thread or others - in my games your roll of 2+9=11 "failure" on an insight check might lead to a narration that tells you the truth with lotsa of "low confidence mixed signals" with a setback of "while you were trying to cut thru the noise enough to get a good read, you missed the cutpurse snagging one of your pouches." (Progress with setback that you will find out about later.)</blockquote>

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