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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7508720" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>I guess that begs the question of whether the patron is an aspect of the character or an aspect of the DM's world? I would say the latter and thus wonder why the player would get to dictate that... don't get me wrong his character can ignore, avoid and foil the demands and plots of said patron whenever and however he wants but this is for all intents and purposes a piece of the world/NPC and the same way I'm not dictating to him how to play his character he shouldn't in turn dictate to me things about the game world or NPC's. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm having a hard time seeing how playing this relationship out from their "character-side perspective" would allow them to...</p><p></p><p>1.) Designate the patron's actions, influence, etc.</p><p>2.) Regulate the DM's ability to play or use the patron in the game.</p><p></p><p>IMO this isn't wanting to explore the relationship from a character-side perspective but instead, akin to wanting to play out lone theater and/or dictate a story in a cooperative game by ones self..</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So they want to create and control not only their warlock but also the patron he or she made a deal with. IMO this would be extremely boring for me as a DM and I would imagine likewise for the players who are not privy to a players thoughts and thus would have no idea how the patron was influencing his actions and decision making. Instead like I commented earlier we have one man theater going on that no one else in the game is privy to... From an archetype or thematic perspective you might as well be playing a wizard or a sorcerer or any other spellcaster. It's all personal opinion but I'd rather you play a more generic character if you;re not interested in exploring (cooperatively) the major themes and tropes around a particular type of class. You've created a warlock, a class whose most interesting and defining thematic hook is the pact he or she has made with a patron and we are regulating that to near non-existence or better yet letting it become one man theater in a cooperative game. That just doesn't vibe well with me or my groups play style. Though I can definitely see how it wouldn't matter to others with differing goals and objectives for their game. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Could you explain how the DM playing an NPC (because that's what a patron or deity is) can tread on the concept of the actual character? And if that is the case why doesn't it apply for any other NPC the player's characters have a connection with?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 7508720, member: 48965"] I guess that begs the question of whether the patron is an aspect of the character or an aspect of the DM's world? I would say the latter and thus wonder why the player would get to dictate that... don't get me wrong his character can ignore, avoid and foil the demands and plots of said patron whenever and however he wants but this is for all intents and purposes a piece of the world/NPC and the same way I'm not dictating to him how to play his character he shouldn't in turn dictate to me things about the game world or NPC's. I'm having a hard time seeing how playing this relationship out from their "character-side perspective" would allow them to... 1.) Designate the patron's actions, influence, etc. 2.) Regulate the DM's ability to play or use the patron in the game. IMO this isn't wanting to explore the relationship from a character-side perspective but instead, akin to wanting to play out lone theater and/or dictate a story in a cooperative game by ones self.. So they want to create and control not only their warlock but also the patron he or she made a deal with. IMO this would be extremely boring for me as a DM and I would imagine likewise for the players who are not privy to a players thoughts and thus would have no idea how the patron was influencing his actions and decision making. Instead like I commented earlier we have one man theater going on that no one else in the game is privy to... From an archetype or thematic perspective you might as well be playing a wizard or a sorcerer or any other spellcaster. It's all personal opinion but I'd rather you play a more generic character if you;re not interested in exploring (cooperatively) the major themes and tropes around a particular type of class. You've created a warlock, a class whose most interesting and defining thematic hook is the pact he or she has made with a patron and we are regulating that to near non-existence or better yet letting it become one man theater in a cooperative game. That just doesn't vibe well with me or my groups play style. Though I can definitely see how it wouldn't matter to others with differing goals and objectives for their game. Could you explain how the DM playing an NPC (because that's what a patron or deity is) can tread on the concept of the actual character? And if that is the case why doesn't it apply for any other NPC the player's characters have a connection with? [/QUOTE]
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