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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7508987" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>So something isn't a fallacy simply because you disagree with it. It has to a logically invalid argument form, which has nothing to do with the actual content of the argument. A fallacious argument can still result in a correct answer, and a logically sound argument form could be filled with crazy talk. My argument isn't either of those. You are I simply have two different subjective views on fluff.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nobody has yet proven that the player being asked to do a task by his patron is as painful as sawing off a hand, as opposed to also being a mild discomfort like being pricked by a needle. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Pretty much everyone(including me) on my side of things has said repeatedly that if the player and DM agree, things can change. This is a fact, though, without such an agreement, only the DM controls the patron as the patron is an NPC and the rules give NPCs to the DM. </p><p></p><p>What does it serve this discussion to keep repeating statements like the above? Are you arguing that the player can determine the nature and frequency of those services and the DM has no choice but to accept it? If so, you need to provide some rules support for that position, as everything I've seen in the rules says the opposite. If you aren't making that claim, then it seems like we are in agreement that the fluff can change with DM approval.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Examples like these aren't really helpful to this discussion. My side has already let you know repeatedly that if the player and DM agree, things are different. What purpose does repeating things like this serve?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't recall seeing a credible example of this. The ones that I've seen(and I have skipped a good number of posts) have been intentionally over the top responses to the people posting about how DMs are abusive asshats and will force the warlock to do heinous things. One begets the other, and I from what I saw, the player side started these sorts of comments.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7508987, member: 23751"] So something isn't a fallacy simply because you disagree with it. It has to a logically invalid argument form, which has nothing to do with the actual content of the argument. A fallacious argument can still result in a correct answer, and a logically sound argument form could be filled with crazy talk. My argument isn't either of those. You are I simply have two different subjective views on fluff. Nobody has yet proven that the player being asked to do a task by his patron is as painful as sawing off a hand, as opposed to also being a mild discomfort like being pricked by a needle. Pretty much everyone(including me) on my side of things has said repeatedly that if the player and DM agree, things can change. This is a fact, though, without such an agreement, only the DM controls the patron as the patron is an NPC and the rules give NPCs to the DM. What does it serve this discussion to keep repeating statements like the above? Are you arguing that the player can determine the nature and frequency of those services and the DM has no choice but to accept it? If so, you need to provide some rules support for that position, as everything I've seen in the rules says the opposite. If you aren't making that claim, then it seems like we are in agreement that the fluff can change with DM approval. Examples like these aren't really helpful to this discussion. My side has already let you know repeatedly that if the player and DM agree, things are different. What purpose does repeating things like this serve? I don't recall seeing a credible example of this. The ones that I've seen(and I have skipped a good number of posts) have been intentionally over the top responses to the people posting about how DMs are abusive asshats and will force the warlock to do heinous things. One begets the other, and I from what I saw, the player side started these sorts of comments. [/QUOTE]
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What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?
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