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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9757861" data-attributes="member: 23751">When Gandalf is standing outside of the gates of Moria he says, &quot;I once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs, that was ever used for such a purpose...&quot;I sincerely doubt that he would be running around learning dark magic from evil sorcerers.&nbsp; That statement says that mortals came up with spells since 1) he didn't know them and had to learn them, and 2) he uses &quot;every spell&quot; and not &quot;the spell,&quot; which means that the races had multiple different versions of spells of opening.&nbsp; If Sauron was providing them all, I doubt that he would bother to make up multiple versions for each of the races, rather than just handing out one to every magic caster.While Sauron did teach magic to mortals, the Maia also taught and gifted men(the Numenoreans) with knowledge and ability long before they fell to evil.&nbsp; It seems like that magic was taught, since they forged the Daggers of Westernesse which had power beyond mere metal(magic items).&nbsp; They probably wrought other magic items, but we didn't get to learn about those that I know of.&nbsp; Elves of course have their own magic, but apparently they also can develop spells, which is probably how Luthien and Finrod were able shapechange/polymorph themselves and others.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 9757861, member: 23751"] When Gandalf is standing outside of the gates of Moria he says, "I once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs, that was ever used for such a purpose..." I sincerely doubt that he would be running around learning dark magic from evil sorcerers. That statement says that mortals came up with spells since 1) he didn't know them and had to learn them, and 2) he uses "every spell" and not "the spell," which means that the races had multiple different versions of spells of opening. If Sauron was providing them all, I doubt that he would bother to make up multiple versions for each of the races, rather than just handing out one to every magic caster. While Sauron did teach magic to mortals, the Maia also taught and gifted men(the Numenoreans) with knowledge and ability long before they fell to evil. It seems like that magic was taught, since they forged the Daggers of Westernesse which had power beyond mere metal(magic items). They probably wrought other magic items, but we didn't get to learn about those that I know of. Elves of course have their own magic, but apparently they also can develop spells, which is probably how Luthien and Finrod were able shapechange/polymorph themselves and others. [/QUOTE]

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