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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 5823318" data-attributes="member: 32164">I have a conceptual problem with "if you want to play an archer, play a ranger."And that's this. What does the fighter do when he's fighting a dragon that just won't land? Plink at it ineffectively with a crossbow? Sit on his hands? Pick his nose? Similarly, if the caravan he's guarding gets ambushed by bandits, is the fighter supposed to just dick around and let himself get shot at until they close to melee combat? Is he supposed to run into the woods where he's no longer guarding the caravan? It's nonsensical.So, it's not about whether rangers should be better archers than fighters. It's about whether a fighter should be able to put down his sword and fight effectively with a bow in those situations where a bow is called for.Samurai were expected to be equally skilled with Daisho (Katana and wakizashi) and Daikyu (Great Bow). Does that mean every samurai is a multiclass fighter/ranger? Does Samurai have to be a separate class because it's from a different culture? It's nonsensical.As another example, I think it's pretty clear that Lan Mandragoran (Moiraine's Warder in The Wheel of Time series) is a FIGHTER - despite his stealth, tracking, and wilderness survival abilities, and his (considerable) skill with a bow. He wears scale armor, and by preference fights (mostly) with his sword (his skill level is "blademaster"). Yeah, he's probably got "Warder" as a campaign-specific prestige class, but it's not like he ever stopped being a fighter so he could learn to track and what-not.What Lan doesn't have are any of the supernatural, or deep lore herbalism abilities that we, as D&D players, typically associate with rangers. He's an accomplished horseman and tracker, and quite stealthy when he wants to be. The truth is that, for all its popularity, "ranger" is probably one of the most questionable class archetypes in D&D. In Middle Earth, it's a "role" played (mostly) by warriors.But beyond the Dunedain, who are unique due their RACE, the rangers of Middle Earth are basically just fighters when they're doing a particular job.Strider and coolness factor aside, that's a hard basis on which to frame an archetypal class.</blockquote>

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