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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What do you ban? (3.5)
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5424863" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I didn't say that. However, I would say that 3.X Cleric and Wizard escape two of the three complaints I had against the Druid. If it had only been a power issue, I would have simply tweaked the Druid a little to resolve the problem. The 3.0 Druid was slightly less of a problem. But power and balance weren't my only issues with the Druid.</p><p></p><p>Wizard remains basically as it is, but suffers from lowered spell DC's (you don't add spell level to the DC to resist), greater difficulty dealing with foes at melee range (you aren't completely free to take a 5' step to leave a threat zone without drawing an AoO), and 'combat casting' is completely impossible. Also certain notorious spells are weaker, and in general my spell list is basically 'take the weaker of the 3.0 or 3.5 version of the spell'.</p><p></p><p>Cleric actually slightly outshines Wizard in many cases - we don't talk about CoDzilla for nothing. Cleric has all the new difficulties of the Wizard, and in addition Cleric is toned down getting 1 fewer spell per spell level (starts with 0+1D rather than 1+1D) and is forced to select a list of 'known spells' rather than freely being able to prepare any spell in print. Together with some slight tweaks upward for the non-spellcasting classes, I find these tend to give better balance than the stock version of the rules through a wider range of levels. Spellcasters are far from obselete, and in fact probably retain their essential quality, but don't completely overshine the party either and there is much less reason for everyone to play one of the big 4 full spellcasters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps, but the difference isn't enough that the other advantages of being a druid (better HD, better AC, free shapeshifting from a relatively low level, fighter-like animal companion) don't at least make up for it. The class would probably be playable with only being a 2/3rds caster similar to the Bard, and is arguably sufficiently powerful that it would still then overshine the Bard as an option. </p><p></p><p>But as I said, my issues weren't just power related.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5424863, member: 4937"] I didn't say that. However, I would say that 3.X Cleric and Wizard escape two of the three complaints I had against the Druid. If it had only been a power issue, I would have simply tweaked the Druid a little to resolve the problem. The 3.0 Druid was slightly less of a problem. But power and balance weren't my only issues with the Druid. Wizard remains basically as it is, but suffers from lowered spell DC's (you don't add spell level to the DC to resist), greater difficulty dealing with foes at melee range (you aren't completely free to take a 5' step to leave a threat zone without drawing an AoO), and 'combat casting' is completely impossible. Also certain notorious spells are weaker, and in general my spell list is basically 'take the weaker of the 3.0 or 3.5 version of the spell'. Cleric actually slightly outshines Wizard in many cases - we don't talk about CoDzilla for nothing. Cleric has all the new difficulties of the Wizard, and in addition Cleric is toned down getting 1 fewer spell per spell level (starts with 0+1D rather than 1+1D) and is forced to select a list of 'known spells' rather than freely being able to prepare any spell in print. Together with some slight tweaks upward for the non-spellcasting classes, I find these tend to give better balance than the stock version of the rules through a wider range of levels. Spellcasters are far from obselete, and in fact probably retain their essential quality, but don't completely overshine the party either and there is much less reason for everyone to play one of the big 4 full spellcasters. Perhaps, but the difference isn't enough that the other advantages of being a druid (better HD, better AC, free shapeshifting from a relatively low level, fighter-like animal companion) don't at least make up for it. The class would probably be playable with only being a 2/3rds caster similar to the Bard, and is arguably sufficiently powerful that it would still then overshine the Bard as an option. But as I said, my issues weren't just power related. [/QUOTE]
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