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What do you ban? (3.5)
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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5442718" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>It is a fantasy game, not a magic game. That person misrepresented the game, in my opinion. Here is where many people have problems with it:</p><p></p><p>1) It's not typically something you would see regularly in a fantasy movie or book, unless the setting was themed that way. Most people, when they think fantasy, draw off of popular sources, and TBo9S doesn't really cater to that outlook. This is a somewhat flawed line of thought, as certain other basics are an exception to this: monks, dozens of magic items per character, etc., etc., etc. The list could go on and on.</p><p></p><p>2) It's too good. Too many people see it, and want the feats, classes, etc. over other sidebooks. Now, I've heard that it's narrows the gap considerably with spellcasters, and that's good for balance. Generally speaking though, many GMs are hesitant to allow anything that everyone wants, since it's generally a sign it's too good. I've never heard stories of the classes outshining powergamed, prestiged spellcasters, but I don't know all of the different classes and mechanics well enough to honestly comment with anything close to complete assuredness.</p><p></p><p>3) It's too powerful. Many people love low-power settings. I'd say more often than not, these are players I've directly gamed with (THIS IS NOT ME SAYING THAT THE MAJORITY OF PLAYERS PLAY THIS WAY). In this scenario, magic usually takes a hit, so further increasing melee power in such a magical way goes against the setting. If everyone is doing magic (both the spellcasters and the melee members), it makes the nonspellcasters seem weird, where in a typical d&d setting that I've personally experienced (AGAIN, NOT SAYING IT'S TYPICAL FOR EVERYONE), people tend to emphasis the mundane to bring out the specialness of the PCs. Seeing people go about their daily jobs, seeing mundane guards ask the players for help or fight against them... these are instances of the mundane world highlighting the PCs by way or contrast. If you make a setting where even melee is magical, it hurts the ability to contrast.</p><p></p><p>Keep in mind, all of these are reasons why people don't like the book, but not reasons why it's bad. It's just that people have different tastes, and to those that like the book, use it. It's got a lot of cool stuff in it. If you don't like the book, then don't use it, and you don't have to worry about it.</p><p></p><p>The only real problem arises when someone wants to use it, but the GM doesn't want it, but it seems straightforward here to me, too, but maybe that's become I've only played a game twice in the last three or four years (I run the rest): do what the GM says. It's his setting, and he has his reasons. You can ask why, as there's no harm in that, but once he gives his reason, don't argue too much. It could be anything from "it doesn't fit the setting" to "it's too powerful" to "I don't own the book, and we can only use books that I own." If you feel his reason doesn't encompass your character ("We only use books that one of us owns" and you bought the book, but he doesn't know about it yet), feel free to bring that up. Just don't argue against his reasoning, even if you inquire what made him decide to make that decision.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5442718, member: 6668292"] It is a fantasy game, not a magic game. That person misrepresented the game, in my opinion. Here is where many people have problems with it: 1) It's not typically something you would see regularly in a fantasy movie or book, unless the setting was themed that way. Most people, when they think fantasy, draw off of popular sources, and TBo9S doesn't really cater to that outlook. This is a somewhat flawed line of thought, as certain other basics are an exception to this: monks, dozens of magic items per character, etc., etc., etc. The list could go on and on. 2) It's too good. Too many people see it, and want the feats, classes, etc. over other sidebooks. Now, I've heard that it's narrows the gap considerably with spellcasters, and that's good for balance. Generally speaking though, many GMs are hesitant to allow anything that everyone wants, since it's generally a sign it's too good. I've never heard stories of the classes outshining powergamed, prestiged spellcasters, but I don't know all of the different classes and mechanics well enough to honestly comment with anything close to complete assuredness. 3) It's too powerful. Many people love low-power settings. I'd say more often than not, these are players I've directly gamed with (THIS IS NOT ME SAYING THAT THE MAJORITY OF PLAYERS PLAY THIS WAY). In this scenario, magic usually takes a hit, so further increasing melee power in such a magical way goes against the setting. If everyone is doing magic (both the spellcasters and the melee members), it makes the nonspellcasters seem weird, where in a typical d&d setting that I've personally experienced (AGAIN, NOT SAYING IT'S TYPICAL FOR EVERYONE), people tend to emphasis the mundane to bring out the specialness of the PCs. Seeing people go about their daily jobs, seeing mundane guards ask the players for help or fight against them... these are instances of the mundane world highlighting the PCs by way or contrast. If you make a setting where even melee is magical, it hurts the ability to contrast. Keep in mind, all of these are reasons why people don't like the book, but not reasons why it's bad. It's just that people have different tastes, and to those that like the book, use it. It's got a lot of cool stuff in it. If you don't like the book, then don't use it, and you don't have to worry about it. The only real problem arises when someone wants to use it, but the GM doesn't want it, but it seems straightforward here to me, too, but maybe that's become I've only played a game twice in the last three or four years (I run the rest): do what the GM says. It's his setting, and he has his reasons. You can ask why, as there's no harm in that, but once he gives his reason, don't argue too much. It could be anything from "it doesn't fit the setting" to "it's too powerful" to "I don't own the book, and we can only use books that I own." If you feel his reason doesn't encompass your character ("We only use books that one of us owns" and you bought the book, but he doesn't know about it yet), feel free to bring that up. Just don't argue against his reasoning, even if you inquire what made him decide to make that decision. [/QUOTE]
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