Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
What DO you DO for... Fighters?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="green slime" data-source="post: 2927215" data-attributes="member: 1325"><p>Not really overkill.</p><p></p><p>Firstly, it appears as overkill, but isn't really. It just an attempt to keep the fighter class interesting throughout all 20 levels, in competition with the mages/clerics of the world, and specifically to combat all the PrC's which grant new shiny abilities every level.</p><p></p><p>What does a fighter do? He does nothing else but fight. He gets his thrilling two skill points per level. "Jump and Climb? w00t! and at 8th level, I can acquire <em>boots of flying</em> and never use those skills again!"</p><p></p><p>By core rules, Fighters gain less feats than wizards do spells: the counter argument being, "but spells don't last all day!" Which is only partially true, as they can at higher levels. Secondly, the feats are seldomly such that they are always relevant to the situation at hand. Instead, a great many are situational. Improved Grapple, isn't going to get used every fight, unless you decide to really specialise along this line. </p><p></p><p>By the core rules, there are some <strong>really dead levels for fighters:</strong></p><p>5th (+1 BAB, +2 skills, +d10 hp.... must take <strong>hours</strong> to level up).</p><p>7th (same)</p><p>11th (same)</p><p>13th (same)</p><p>17th (same)</p><p>19th (same)</p><p></p><p>And that is counting the bonus feat every third level, which everyone gets, as an "exciting" level.</p><p></p><p>By similar comparison <strong>the rogue</strong>:</p><p>14th (first level of no feat, no special ability, counting standard feat every third level, as a big bonus)</p><p>20th (same as above)</p><p></p><p><strong>Barbarian</strong>:</p><p>Doesn't happen!</p><p></p><p>Paladin's and Ranger's are a special case, as they are extremely weak spellcasters: something should be done about </p><p>1) their spellcasting, and</p><p>2) the Ranger's Dire Lamb pet. (3.5 fixed the paladin's never-present mount syndrome)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Now, in this specific campaign, I have shuffled around which classes are available to which race, to provide more specific flavour to each race. Rangers and Barbarians are not available to Humans: Only Paladins, Fighters, Monks and Hexblades of the martial classes. Paladins have had their <em>remove disease</em> ability ability upgraded to a <em>remove affliction</em>, which affects most low level ailments: disease, poison, blindness, deafness, and functions as Lesser Restoration to boot. (Its 1/week at low levels for crying out loud!!!!)</p><p></p><p>Paladins caster level is set to half their paladin level, <strong>or</strong> their paladin level -3, which ever is greater. Otherwise there is no point to having GMW or similar.</p><p></p><p>Other changes to paladins I cannot remember right now.</p><p></p><p>Rogues get more skill points.</p><p></p><p>I have strived for all classes to receive something iconic for their class at each level.</p><p></p><p>One reason that fighters in 3.5 are especially weak choices for players after level 4 because there are prestige classes which give stuff away every level. The easiest way to compensate for this, and to attract players to at least consider staying on the straight and narrow, is not to ban all PrCs outright, nor weaken them, but to make sure that each class is attractive as an option in its own right. True spellcasters are always attractive: they gain new spell levels every second level, always gain access to new toys (more spells). As it stands today in core, the poor fighter is the least attractive.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="green slime, post: 2927215, member: 1325"] Not really overkill. Firstly, it appears as overkill, but isn't really. It just an attempt to keep the fighter class interesting throughout all 20 levels, in competition with the mages/clerics of the world, and specifically to combat all the PrC's which grant new shiny abilities every level. What does a fighter do? He does nothing else but fight. He gets his thrilling two skill points per level. "Jump and Climb? w00t! and at 8th level, I can acquire [i]boots of flying[/i] and never use those skills again!" By core rules, Fighters gain less feats than wizards do spells: the counter argument being, "but spells don't last all day!" Which is only partially true, as they can at higher levels. Secondly, the feats are seldomly such that they are always relevant to the situation at hand. Instead, a great many are situational. Improved Grapple, isn't going to get used every fight, unless you decide to really specialise along this line. By the core rules, there are some [b]really dead levels for fighters:[/b] 5th (+1 BAB, +2 skills, +d10 hp.... must take [b]hours[/b] to level up). 7th (same) 11th (same) 13th (same) 17th (same) 19th (same) And that is counting the bonus feat every third level, which everyone gets, as an "exciting" level. By similar comparison [b]the rogue[/b]: 14th (first level of no feat, no special ability, counting standard feat every third level, as a big bonus) 20th (same as above) [b]Barbarian[/b]: Doesn't happen! Paladin's and Ranger's are a special case, as they are extremely weak spellcasters: something should be done about 1) their spellcasting, and 2) the Ranger's Dire Lamb pet. (3.5 fixed the paladin's never-present mount syndrome) Now, in this specific campaign, I have shuffled around which classes are available to which race, to provide more specific flavour to each race. Rangers and Barbarians are not available to Humans: Only Paladins, Fighters, Monks and Hexblades of the martial classes. Paladins have had their [i]remove disease[/i] ability ability upgraded to a [i]remove affliction[/i], which affects most low level ailments: disease, poison, blindness, deafness, and functions as Lesser Restoration to boot. (Its 1/week at low levels for crying out loud!!!!) Paladins caster level is set to half their paladin level, [b]or[/b] their paladin level -3, which ever is greater. Otherwise there is no point to having GMW or similar. Other changes to paladins I cannot remember right now. Rogues get more skill points. I have strived for all classes to receive something iconic for their class at each level. One reason that fighters in 3.5 are especially weak choices for players after level 4 because there are prestige classes which give stuff away every level. The easiest way to compensate for this, and to attract players to at least consider staying on the straight and narrow, is not to ban all PrCs outright, nor weaken them, but to make sure that each class is attractive as an option in its own right. True spellcasters are always attractive: they gain new spell levels every second level, always gain access to new toys (more spells). As it stands today in core, the poor fighter is the least attractive. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
What DO you DO for... Fighters?
Top